Vector Layer

[CoreyAnimator]

Without a doubt this program has the best drawing tools. Really as an animator all I want is a good sketching tool and a good inking tool because I dont have a steady hand, vectors would be best for inking. I know a lot of request have been made, but honestly this one feature is what would boost this software to an untouchable level. I enjoy drawing in tvpaint, inking in flash. I will continue to do this for now. Vectors for final inking are best because of lack of resolution restrictions and small file sizes. I saw the blog of one of the animators here who had tutorials on inking but its not the same for all, especially if you dont have a cintiq monitor. Theres allready a program out that lets you draw in bitmap, ink in vectors but its beta and very buggy. You dont need any more new brushes, or all kinds of effects features or whatever. Really the drawing is the whole point of the program. And really its the final drawing not the sketch that you want to make sure is tight. Please tvpaint, i earnestly say that you listen to your customer. You see what your competitors are doing. You dont have to copy, but at least take in to consideration what makes the OTHER softwares flash, toonboom, whatever good, and beat them at it. I can see the potential for this program because all other software update , but dont really change anything. I have other request, but this is the most vital for me. Please hear me tvpaint. Thank you

-Corey
(www.coreyloving.com)

[Patrice]

Hi Corey,
What you would like is a vectorial tool, don't you?

[CoreyAnimator]

Hello my friend, thanks for taking the time to read my dumb rambling. Im not too sure what you mean by vectorial tool, im not the brightest bulb I guess u can say. But if it has anything to do with drawing in vectors, not in bitmap then converting it, I'm all for it. I like how in vector software it can smoothen out your lines while you ink. But vectors are horrible for sketching compared to pixel bitmap and vice versa.

It my own opinion, I really and truly believe that making a tool where u draw in vectors would be helpful. Come to think of it, thats probably what you meant by vectorial tool! I apologize for my stupidity. Please take into consideration this simple yet efficient idea for tvpaint

[Peter Wassink]

but at least take in to consideration what makes the OTHER softwares flash, toonboom, whatever good, and beat them at it.

what makes flash good? If you know the answer to this you should tell the makers so they can put it in.

but seriously if you want to clean up your animation using vectors the best way would be to export a bitmap sequence to your vector software of choice and trace it there.

I think if would be a bad idea if tvpaint would also try and compete in the vector drawing world.
it should stay at its strength which is bitmap animation.
the competition in this field will be hard enough to keep ahead of. Just think about adobe CS3 with its increased interaction between photoshop and aftereffects even though this combo is not at all ideal for animators Adobe has the huge advantage that everyone knows about them, and so despite the fact that that tool(CS3) is not at all ideal to animate in, people will do so because it sort of works but mostly simply because thats what they know. (people can be stupid that way )

[malcooning]

it should stay at its strength which is bitmap animation.
the competition in this field will be hard enough to keep ahead of.

I couldn't agree more.

There are very few bitmap animation software out there, and Tvpaint is way ahead of any. The reason the bitmap animation exist and survive is because there's a need, particularly amongst artist (as in not industry people) who seek to have the very tools that make their art UNIQUE. Bitmap does it. By vector you have a standardized method of creating visuals, the result of which we see every day: thousands of identically looking styles.

Flash/toonboom etc. indeed make it FASTER and EASIER to fill areas with ink (funny word to use in such a long drawn digital domain...), but how does that make it BETTER? The rush to get things done ever faster is exactly what harnesses the vector programs to the industry. So the industry looks the way it looks. Fast, flashy, clean. I think Tvpaint can pride itself for giving the creatives the opportunity to come with wonderful things with the time and intention that characterizes only traditional arts (including traditional animation).

I'm not saying that the addition of vector tools to tvpaint will be a wrong thing. on the contrary, I'd probably use it myself. But the development team is small and has to make choices as for how to make the software ever more polished. Tantalus is right - it'll take a few years for tvpaint to catch up, in the meantime it might neglect its virtues.

[CoreyAnimator]

I think TVpaint is the best software for animation. I am tired of using flash and toonboom for inking my work. But the simple ability to smooth out your lines while you draw is critical for inkers in digital workflow, it allows for more mistakes. If you ask me, Tvpaint is allready ahead of the game in some of the most critical points. The problem is most of these animation programs just keep making things more and more complicated but its really the core things that matter, such as good drawing, good timeline, easy to ink and color. But honestly I didnt know that tvpaint was comprised of only a small group of people. Thats funny to me because even those small amount of people are making software better than big corporations like adobe. Though honestly, a vector tool of some sort would make inking so much better. I cant speak for the rest of the artist but for me inking is a critical and frustrating step in animation. I find it a lot easier to ink in vectors because it smoothens out my lines. Convenience is what we aim for isn't it? Having an output to any size is also a huge plus. I know tvpaint will continue to update, to tvpaint 9, 10, and so on. What changes will really appeal to animators who just want simple tools for their workflow. Digicel, toonboom, flash, PAP, CTP, just like you I've tried them all, and just like you I want tvpaint to succeed and grow to its full potential, I dont want to see it fall. I hope you take this into consideration because TVpaint is the peoples animation program.

-Corey
(www.coreyloving.com)

[JohnArtbox]

If smoothness is the major concern, why not trace your roughs using the spline tool?
Admittedly this is not the entire answer, but it does make for smooth cleanup. On the other hand if the existing spline support could be extended it would be very useful for those of us that use TVPaint for motion graphics.

[Peter Wassink]

.......I cant speak for the rest of the artist but for me inking is a critical and frustrating step in animation.

may i ask you why you even need this 'ink' step?
originally inking was a necessary step in the production process, if you wanted painted backgrounds you had to use cells and cells required the pencil animation to be traced with ink.
But since 101 dalmations (the xerox process) and now completely with digital tools (like TVP) inking is no longer a technical requirement.

the only reason to 'ink' your animation is to present a certain style (... and admittedly it makes for easier coloring)
and looking at your site i was just wondering... you have an obvious talent and love for painting why not animate in a painterly style?
TVPaint now offers this possibility so you can actually skip that frustrating step of adding tight outlines all together.

i would be very excited to see what you come up with
maybe a whole new style of your own

... Convenience is what we aim for isn't it?....

no!
our aim is to make something good and share this with an audience!
and off course we will often try to find the most convenient way of reaching this aim. the question is: does the aim require inked outlines?

[ZigOtto]

@ Tantalus & malcooning :
you argue animators out of "inking" in their workflow, ... ok, "inking" step come from
the old-fashioned [cells-on-BG/under-Rostrum-camera-strand] technic,
but now, "inking" means more or less "cleaning" (from the roughs) to fit exactly the models.
of course, it depends upon the style you have to animate, specially in comissionned films, or tv advertisements,
the character model isn't often from your own, you mostly have to fulfil the agency's AD desires ...
tvp technology claimed to be the ultimate "all-in-one" animators tool, the animator's survival "swiss-army-knife",
to be able to draw and animate in a vector-layer somehow could give us real advantages imho,
I'm thinking about applying custom animbrushes (natural-media like) on animated spline-strokes,
so an improved vector-tool could be useful (and time-saving for tight inbetweens),
but it certainly does not meaninevitably a "flash-look" animation, no it doesn't,
it's up to the user/artist to perform his job/art in his own mood : working out what the client have asked for,
or being in a more creative process, leaving the beaten tracks and the disney/pixar&co sempiternal references.
In end, when watching animation, the audience doesn't really care about the tools (vector or not) involved in making it.
Regarding priorities, I probably wouldn't place this request on top of the list,
but I wouldn't leave it out of the list so far ...
anyway, the debate is open ...