TabletPC and tvpaint

malcooning · Post by **malcooning** » 21 Aug 2007, 23:18

if anyone in the forums here uses tvpaint on a tabletPC (i know a few do), can you please write which tabletPC it is, and maybe a few words of your opinion about it?
thanks,

-Asaf

oliveuk · Post by **oliveuk** » 23 Aug 2007, 18:14

I use an old HP 4200 with 1Gb ram which I was recommended by a friend who was using it for Zbrush work.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/75053/hp ... c4200.html

you can now find it for £500 or even less if you know some second hand resellers specialised in laptop (ebay could be a good place to look at too).

It s not a slate so a bit heavy but still light enough to carry around since the screen is only a 12.5 inches. The size of the screen is not much of a problem when working in Pal resolution but you must be told that the resolution is locked to a maximum of 1024x768

I also bought a Toshiba M200 for much less, The video card was a Gforce so I could go up to 1600xsomething. The feel of the screen when drawing was very good and it is also flushed so you don't bump against the edge of the casing but in the end I prefered my HP one because the design feels very solid and I carry it with me pretty much all the time.

One more thing, the HP 4200 has a little plastic wheel on the side (jog) that can be used to step from frame to frame in TVpaint.... GREAT!

Olive

oliveuk · Post by **oliveuk** » 23 Aug 2007, 18:21

oh and one thing I will have to raise regarding the jog and TV paint, it is placed at the bottom right of the screen.

On most application this is not a problem as you can flip the screen in all directions but some applications like PAP or TVpaint are not very happy about it and they stay in Panoramic 1 mode.

Once I managed to use TVpaint in Panoramic 2 mode but I have no clue how i did that

ramblindawg · Post by **ramblindawg** » 23 Aug 2007, 21:28

Hi, Asaf... (this is mostly a copy and paste from a message I posted a few weeks ago, but I have added more details.) A few months ago I bought a refurbished HP tc4200 with a 2gb processor and 2Gb of ram for a little over $1000. It's a convertable tablet, which means there's a keyboard available if you flip the screen over and use it like a normal laptop. The keyboard is tucked away behind the screen when you are using it like a tablet. I spent $20 for a mini slim lightweight USB keyboard (by BTC of Taiwan) to keep next to my desk because I love using keyboard shortcuts in TVPaint while in tablet mode.. I've been using TVPaint Pro on it full-time every day since I bought it, and it works great!

The only problem I've ever had is that it TVPaint sometimes crashes ONLY when I'm creating a new custom panel...the list that comes up starts flickering and the program won't respond. It's probably something wrong with the video driver (as if I know what I'm talking about). Thats not a big deal because now I just make it a point to build my custom panels on my Mac and then import them into my Tablet.

There is no CD or DVD drive on this tablet, but I don't need one very often. I use my SanDisk 2Gb Cruzer USB for transferring files. For burning disks and playing DVD movies (which this machine does very well) I occasionally use an external USB DVD burner from Lite-On. It was only $59 from TigerDirect.com .

The tc4200 is a bit heavier than the motion computing tablets, but it's also about half the price. I also started using a nice Cross Pen Penabled tablet stylus instead of the small stylus provided. It's really nice to be able to come home and work on the couch while my wife is watching TV...sure beats staying late at work! Anyway, my friend who recommended the tc4200 to me has been using his for about two years and he also recommends it very highly. After using mine for the last few months I can definitely say that I would do it all over again in a second.

If you have any more questions about the TC4200 tablet, please feel free to ask! I can give you a lot more information if I know what particular questions you have.

Good luck and have fun shopping! --Sherm

oliveuk · Post by **oliveuk** » 23 Aug 2007, 21:57

yeah try the M200 as well, It is the same category but the feel of the screen when drawing especially with a wacom pen is very nice.

Ah I forgot to mention that the screen is not as bright as the HP TC4200 which is already not very bright. Forget about drawing outside in full sun

olive

malcooning · Post by **malcooning** » 26 Aug 2007, 14:16

guys thanks for your info. definitely very helpful!

It's always a struggle whether to go for a low spenditure second hand or a new, long lasting (not necessarily) new technology for the bigger price.

The points you've raised make me think about the further aspects of a tabletPC. For example, I didn't know you could use a Wacom pen on those screens. I thought I would be restricted to the pen that came with the tablet. My main concern so far has been the pressure sensitivity levels. I remember when the Motion Computing LE1600 was discussed in Bauhaus forums the pen sensitivity issue was raised and I think it was limited to 250 or so levels. which didn't seem much.
So can you tell me how are you satisfied with the pen behavior on your tablet, and if I can use a Wacom pen, can I use the Intuos3 pen?

Just to say, I've been looking at the Lenovo x60 or x61 tablets. They are not cheap at all, but some reviews praise them well. I saw somewhere mentioned that these teblets use a Wacom digitizer, which might explain what I wrote above.

Thanks again for you input!

asaf

oliveuk · Post by **oliveuk** » 27 Aug 2007, 12:47

Just to get the ball rolling,

you can only use very specific Wacom pens with a Tablet PC, depending on the wacom board they are equipped with.

My feeling is that all TabletPC use a very old wacom board which model would be the 7 years old Digitus or Ultrapad.

How do I know that? Well I am using my 7 years old Ultra pad pen with it

Now I just broke my ultrapad pen and the only thing I remember is that I was only able to use one of the side switch before as a right click.

Regarding the wacom Intuos3 pen well you are out of luck, this pen only works with Intuos3 board, the latest Cintiq uses an intuos3 board but not the previous one so no 1024 level pressure, no 3 mouse button functions.

Personaly I am fine with the level of pressure. The lack of 3 mouse button function bothers me a bit more as I can't animate without my 3 buttons.

I hope that what I wrote made a bit of sense.

Olive

ZigOtto · Post by **ZigOtto** » 27 Aug 2007, 14:51

malcooning wrote:... I didn't know you could use a Wacom pen on those screens. I thought I would be restricted to the pen that came with the tablet. My main concern so far has been the pressure sensitivity levels. I remember when the Motion Computing LE1600 was discussed in Bauhaus forums the pen sensitivity issue was raised and I think it was limited to 250 or so levels. which didn't seem much.
So can you tell me how are you satisfied with the pen behavior on your tablet, and if I can use a Wacom pen, can I use the Intuos3 pen?
...

well, I don't (not yet) own a tabletPC, but I can spread some informations I've got here and there ...
afaik, only the UP-xxx wacom pen serie are compatible with tabletPCs using wacom technology,
and yes, they are restricted to 256* levels of pressure, so don't expect to use an Intuos1/ 2/ 3 pen
on an actually available tablet, being in hopes that you will increase the pressure levels, this won't work ...
This is not clearly mentioned by the Tablets manufacturers, nor by Wacom themselves,
but the matter of fact is that's where we are actually.
If you want to know how many models are existing in this "Tablet-compatible" UP-xxx serie,
here's an useful link (from Asia Wacom) :
http://www.wacom-asia.com/aptky/607/pen.htm
the first six ones (light blue color-coded), to which you can add the older UP-201,
similar to the UP-801E but without the erasor tip. (see pict.)

* maybe 512(?) with the cintiq 18sx UP-911E, but not sure at all.

oliveuk · Post by **oliveuk** » 27 Aug 2007, 15:06

whoao! thanks for that ZigOtto!

yeah I personaly use the UP-801E Erasing Ultrapen and my friend uses the Cintiq18SX UP-911E-02.

Only one switch on the side used to work until I broke the pen in two

I cellotaped it but the contactors inside fell apart.

And here is the page where you could check or buy one of the main pen for tablet pc:

http://www.wacom-shop.net/cgi-bin/wacom ... talog/1044
http://www.wacom-shop.net/cgi-bin/wacom ... talog/1043

the tablet pc slim pen is realllllllly slim. I have one as a backup.

malcooning · Post by **malcooning** » 28 Aug 2007, 02:35

so things are becoming more clear now. Thank you.
So all in all I'm still in dilemma:
Either a tabletPC, or a laptop that has bigger screen and is half the price and then use it with my intuos 3 tablet. But while I'm deliberating on this the special sale on Lenovo's website is coming to a close. I hate being so indecisive.

as well, I'm thinking, if I get a tabletPC I kiss sketchbooks goodbye. It's a sad thing to do, and I'm not sure I want that...

Peter Wassink · Post by **Peter Wassink** » 28 Aug 2007, 07:56

malcooning wrote:...
Either a tabletPC, or a laptop that has bigger screen and is half the price and then use it with my intuos 3 tablet...

i have no personal experience with either.
but this is what i heard:
that in case of the laptop-wacom combination you have to consider that the wacom drains your battery extra fast
so when working outdoors you should always make sure to be near a power outlet.

malcooning · Post by **malcooning** » 29 Aug 2007, 00:37

Tantalus wrote:in case of the laptop-wacom combination you have to consider that the wacom drains your battery extra fast
so when working outdoors you should always make sure to be near a power outlet.

Thanks Tantalus. that's a good thing you pointed it out. I Didn't think about this issue. Combined with the fact that my A4 tablet will be bigger than the laptop I'm not sure at all it's a handy setup.

I think the Tablet/slate idea is growing in me (despite the price), bearing in mind that I won't be using it for the 'proper' work but rather for sketching ideas (animated ideas!) on the go, and away from my desk (which is the main point. but then I'll be taking it to the cafe and end up eating, drinking, looking at girls, reading a book instead of doing any work...)

come to think of it, it's only another way of being comfortable. And comfort is number 1 reason to laziness...

MrChoy · Post by **MrChoy** » 29 Aug 2007, 09:17

I have a Acer Travelmate c213. It is a pretty good value tablet PC with an interesting form factor - It's a slate that flips up to reveal the keyboard.

I love it to bits and in fact do all my roughs on it now. Despite many years using a wacom and monitor It just feels much nicer drawing where you look.

Negatives
Battery life is not brilliant but then that is the trade off for a core 2 processor and a Nvidia card. I work from home so I am never far from a socket.

The screen is a little small and the viewing angle is far from brilliant. My tablet of choice - Motion computing with a view any where screen was nearly twice the price in the UK - (close to £2000!) so the Acer won as the cheap option.

There is a problem on tablet pc's drawing with fine lines - you get a bit of a wobble. The only drawing software that doesn't exhibit this is the defunct Sketchbook pro. The TVP guys are aware of this and are working to fix it though. Frankly TVP is much nicer to work with and way more customizable. I end up working with slightly bigger lines and trying to stay as close as possible to 100% when drawing - it seems to do the trick.

All in all I'm very happy with the tablet PC and TVP. It justs feels nice

malcooning · Post by **malcooning** » 29 Aug 2007, 14:54

MrChoy, The C213 (210) seems like an interesting design for a tablet. If I figure correctly you can flip the screen up in an angle, or leave it down as a slate, but you can't shut it facing down. Doesn't it make the screen always exposed, like a slate, and therefore fragile when carrying around?

Anyway, where did you buy the c213? I looked in the US site and the model wasn't even listed. Uk has a couple of online shops selling it, but it seems very pricey at the moment, no less than 1300 GBP. For this price I was looking at the Lenovo x61 or the Fujitsu T2010 purchased from the US. I actually have no idea which is better, I can only guess by reviews.

reviews net confusion. Always a time waster...

MrChoy · Post by **MrChoy** » 29 Aug 2007, 15:08

I think the 210 is the base model name and I also believe that Acer has bizarrely decided not to sell it in the USA.

Yes the screen is exposed but I would suggest a screen protector on any tablet (I wear out the wacom overlays every couple of years) It comes with a padded , flip over cover which I though was pretty cheesy until I used it. It is great for absorbing the heat when it is on my lap.

You sadly can't adjust the hight or angle of the screen when it pops up but it is really convenient when you need to type stuff.

I got mine from an online store - DigiUK.com (mainly because I had a credit note with them)
There are others in the UK. Google: Acer c213 uk. That should get you started.