combined masks

[slowtiger]

OK, maybe I'm missing something here.

In TVP 10 I can activate masks from more than one layer, which acts as one combined mask and is very handy.
In TVP 11 it seems that only 1 mask from 1 layer works at a time. If I activate another layer's mask it works like no mask at all. If this is true: please change.

[Joost]

I use TVPaint 11.5.3 and if I understand you correctly, it just works the same as in TVP 10...
Or didn't you mean the disable/enable stencil?

I can select them from multiple layers and they they are combined...
The only issue is that you can't draw on a layer where the stencil is activated. But I complained about that and they promised it will be fixed in the upcoming version

[D.T. Nethery]

It seems there is an inconsistency in how stencils (which are referred to confusingly in the User Guide as both "Masks" and "Stencils", but that's for another discussion ...) are applied.

A positive stencil activated on more than one layer will apply to another layer on top of the activated stencil layers.

However, if you use the inverted stencil activated on more than one layer it will not apply correctly. The inverted stencil only applies from a single layer.

The attached images demonstrate the inconsistency.


Positive Stencil mode activated on more than one layer is applied correctly:

(click on the images to view them at full size)

Inverted Stencil mode activated on more than one layer does not apply :

Inverted Stencil mode activated on a single layer applies correctly:

Or see screencap movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPv-ej3DFQQ




.

[Svengali]

Not inconsistent at all...

The logic for these overlapping INVERTED stencils works this way:

The triangle layer "masks" EVERYWHERE EXCEPT where the green triangle is... including those areas which fall inside the blue circle and the red square.
The circle layer "masks" EVERYWHERE EXCEPT where the blue circle is... including those areas which fall inside the green triangle and the red square.
The square layer "masks" EVERYWHERE EXCEPT where the red square is... including those areas which fall inside the green triangle and the blue circle.

Added together as shown, all inverted stencil "masks" WOULD combine to conceal the entire screen. The only circumstance with inverted stencils as shown, where you would see an "unmasked" color area, would be if the shapes were re-positioned so parts of the triangle, the circle and the square would ALL overlap on some area of the screen, IN COMMON.

Furthermore, the only color visible where they would all overlap each other would show a green area of the triangle as it is on the uppermost layer.

sven

[Peter Wassink]

David... its like a (S)Venn diagram

Sven is right off course and mathematically this makes sense.
But it does not necessarily make sense in a animation workflow.
Therefore these posts do point to a practicle problem.
I have always been struggling with combining masks.
and as soon as you need one or two masks to be inverted... trouble starts

In practice you would often want to be able to get the result that David shows.
basically inverting the combined result of a group of masked layers.
And it requires extra steps now you have to first create the regular mask on a layer and then use that layer as an inverted mask.
So how to implement to do this without that step while keeping it logic and user friendly is a difficult one.

Maybe the mask button of the layer you are applying on could be used to do this... (inverting the result of the combined masks)?
although it would not be the most intuitive.

[D.T. Nethery]

Sven is right off course and mathematically this makes sense.
But it does not necessarily make sense in a animation workflow ... In practice you would often want to be able to get the result that David shows, basically inverting the combined result of a group of masked layers.

I stand corrected. Let me amend my comments/screenshot above to: "This result is not correct the desired result. It should look like this. (to make more sense in an animation workflow, so applying combined inverted stencils gives the same result as combining positive stencils, but in reverse. Not mathematically logical , but it is a desirable result.)"

Therefore these posts do point to a practical problem.
I have always been struggling with combining masks.
and as soon as you need one or two masks to be inverted... trouble starts.

In practice you would often want to be able to get the result that David shows,
basically inverting the combined result of a group of masked layers.
And it requires extra steps now you have to first create the regular mask on a layer and then use that layer as an inverted mask.
So how to implement to do this without that step while keeping it logic and user friendly is a difficult one.

Maybe the mask button of the layer you are applying on could be used to do this... (inverting the result of the combined masks)?
although it would not be the most intuitive.

[D.T. Nethery]

David... its like a (S)Venn diagram

By the way, that's a good one ! Very funny.

[Svengali]

One extra layer (layer 4.) - an inverted stencil activation will will "mask" in the manner you want/need when all the following steps are implemented.

1. create the three overlapping red, green, blue shapes on three lowest layers.
2. turn on normal stencils for the shapes on all three layers.
3. on a next, higher layer, stretch a black filled rectangle over the whole frame which will generate a new, black shape that will have a cumulative contour following the three original shapes.
4. set the inverted stencil on for the black layer (you should deactivate the layer... but the "masking effect" will still work in step 6.)
5. the next step is critical - be sure to turn off the stencils of the red, green and blue shapes.
6. on the final top layer, stretch a yellow filled rectangle over the whole frame which will generate a frame-filled yellow shape that has a cutout where the red, green and blue shapes' edges were. The original color shapes will show through the cutout hole in the filled yellow layer.

A script could automate the entire process...

(S)Venn

[D.T. Nethery]

One extra layer (layer 4.) - an inverted stencil activation will will "mask" in the manner you want/need when all the following steps are implemented.

1. create the three overlapping red, green, blue shapes on three lowest layers.
2. turn on normal stencils for the shapes on all three layers.
3. on a next, higher layer, stretch a black filled rectangle over the whole frame which will generate a new, black shape that will have a cumulative contour following the three original shapes.
4. set the inverted stencil on for the black layer (you should deactivate the layer... but the "masking effect" will still work in step 6.)
5. the next step is critical - be sure to turn off the stencils of the red, green and blue shapes.
6. on the final top layer, stretch a yellow filled rectangle over the whole frame which will generate a frame-filled yellow shape that has a cutout where the red, green and blue shapes' edges were. The original color shapes will show through the cutout hole in the filled yellow layer.

A script could automate the entire process...

(S)Venn

Thank you for explaining this process to me. (as with so many of your posts I will nominate this one to be incorporated into the User Manual with some screen shots or a screen capture video showing how it works)