Motion effects desperately need interface improvements

[Soom]

UPD: After Peter's explanation I will rephrase this feature request:
- It would be really helpful if on all the motion effects there were more visible and more precise on screen controls for the mouse or pen, because many important controls are very cumbersome to use.
- For example - in the KeyFramer FX I can see the yellow box and use SHIFT and/or CTRL -click to manipulate some of the inputs like Bank or Pitch or Pivot (and this method is not precise, because the mouse feedback is just too fast). And it will create a key automatically. But there is no way to change the position that way. It is possible to create a new, or click an existing keyframe on the path and then move it with mouse, but here is the problem: if there are too many keyframes on the screen (see screenshot), it's impossible to select the right one, because they often overlap, especially if there is no path at all and all keys are in the same spot. The only certain way to do it is to select the necessary key in the timeline. But this is just tooo long - too much going back and forth from stage to timeline and back (by the way the Z depth is impossible to control with any clicks whatsoever even after creating a keyframe - the only way is manual number input)
- Another example - the Stabilizer - this one doesn't even have a yellow box, so there is no way whatsoever you can easily choose anything on the screen.
- all these SHIFT and CTRL click functions are not in the User guide - need to be updated.

[Peter Wassink]

Great suggestion! +1

Though you can do more then you mentioned:

CTRL LMB moves pivot offset (pivot remains in place)
Shift RMB would bank it
CTRL RMB will change the z-value ( which is something else then scaling)
shift LMB adjust the Heading and pitch.

But none of these can create keyframe values. only alter existing, so you have to be on a keyframe for it to register the input or else the input will be global.

[Soom]

Great suggestion! +1

Though you can do more then you mentioned:

CTRL LMB moves pivot offset (pivot remains in place)
Shift RMB would bank it
CTRL RMB will change the z-value ( which is something else then scaling)
shift LMB adjust the Heading and pitch.

But none of these can create keyframe values. only alter existing, so you have to be on a keyframe for it to register the input or else the input will be global.

Hey Pieter - thanks a lot for this trick - all these rediscovered hidden functions in TVP again come to light I have updated my original request accordingly - see if I am missing anything?
By the way - most of those actually do create an automatic keyframe (except the position setting, that cannot be modified by any clicking, and also the Z depth cannot be modified at all with any clicks - only works on the Z depth of the Pivot)

[RjLikesToDraw]

I think the keyframer is quite cumbersome. Doing a lot of effects seem pretty cumbersome and are destructive so everytime you attempt one you'd better be on a separate, blank layer. Maybe do like Blender and Opentoonz and make a unique tab (or a seperate, lightweight app) for doing cameras and composites for TVPaint? Slap some node editing on that bad boy? dunno. I've been using TVP for years, now I'm really interested in mods and scripts. Wish I knew how to code, lol.

[Soom]

That's one advantage that ToonBoom Harmony has - I wish such Pegs system was in TVPaint too, but it's a long shot...

[Xavier]

Actually, the whole UI needs improvement !
But I agree that advanced functions like the KeyFramer require urgent efforts.

[D.T. Nethery]

Doing a lot of effects seem pretty cumbersome and are destructive, so every time you attempt one you'd better be on a separate, blank layer.

Very true. This is a point that could be emphasized more in the User Guide and Tutorials , in my opinion. I have come to the point where I almost never apply FX directly to the original layer, but instead I apply FX on a new layer (create Duplicate Structure layer is very useful for this) with the Source set to the original layer or Source set to another Project or Clip, or Source set to Images stored in the Image Library . Image Library is for me one of the most powerful features of TVPaint , but seems to be little known or understood by many users. The fact that you can use images stored in the Image Library as Source images to create FX sequences makes it much more efficient to create Multiplane Camera shots , for just one example .

I have worked on Multiplane scenes where I have layers of still artwork in the Image Library (originally created in Photoshop, transferred into the Image Library) , plus multiple layers of animation saved as DEEP (.dip) files , with each of the animated DEEP sequences open as separate Project tabs. In the TVP file where I'm compositing the final scene I have the Multiplane Camera FX with the various plane Sources set to either images in the Library or to the animated sequence projects (DEEP files). To keep all of these source files from being lost I create a single folder where the original Photoshop files , the various DEEP files and the .TVPP file are all stored together (similar to how an After Effects project has a folder called Footage where all the source files are stored).

The Multiplane allows you to add multiple planes into a single Multiplane FX , but if you're using this multiple source files from Image Library/Clip List/Project List technique with the KeyFramer then you have to open a new KeyFramer FX for each layer , so you literally have a "stack" of KeyFramer FX in the FX Stack one on top of the other (the position of these Keyframer FX in the stack can be changed by dragging them up or down in the stack.)

(click on images to view larger)

[D.T. Nethery]

Actually, the whole UI needs improvement !
But agree that advanced functions like the KeyFramer require urgent efforts.

And as you know from my numerous inquiries and requests , there are many things that could be improved with the Multiplane Camera, too.


EDIT: I've moved my comments about the Multiplane that I had posted here to this other topic so I'm not hijacking Soom's topic about the KeyFramer.

See topic: Each plane in Multiplane stack can have it's own Speed Profile

[D.T. Nethery]

EDIT: I've moved my comments about the Multiplane that I had posted here to this other topic so I'm not hijacking Soom's topic about the KeyFramer.

See topic: Each plane in Multiplane stack can have it's own Speed Profile

[D.T. Nethery]

UPD: After Peter's explanation I will rephrase this feature request:
- It would be really helpful if on all the motion effects there were more visible and more precise on screen controls for the mouse or pen, because many important controls are very cumbersome to use.
- For example - in the KeyFramer FX I can see the yellow box and use SHIFT and/or CTRL -click to manipulate some of the inputs like Bank or Pitch or Pivot (and this method is not precise, because the mouse feedback is just too fast). And it will create a key automatically. But there is no way to change the position that way. It is possible to create a new, or click an existing keyframe on the path and then move it with mouse, but here is the problem: if there are too many keyframes on the screen (see screenshot), it's impossible to select the right one, because they often overlap, especially if there is no path at all and all keys are in the same spot. The only certain way to do it is to select the necessary key in the timeline. But this is just tooo long - too much going back and forth from stage to timeline and back (by the way the Z depth is impossible to control with any clicks whatsoever even after creating a keyframe - the only way is manual number input)
- Another example - the Stabilizer - this one doesn't even have a yellow box, so there is no way whatsoever you can easily choose anything on the screen.
- all these SHIFT and CTRL click functions are not in the User guide - need to be updated.

Screen Shot 2021-11-14 at 23.31.10.png

+1

I agree with what Soom mentions in his post about the KeyFramer needing more precise controls.

Also, this:

- all these SHIFT and CTRL click functions are not in the User guide - need to be updated.

Yes ! How can anyone know where to find out about these controls if not in the User Guide ? Is it mentioned in Elodie's video tutorial on the Keyframer ? (I don't think so , but maybe I'm not remembering it correctly?) Thankfully, I saw Matthieu 's recent note that the User Guide is currently being updated. I hope this information mentioned by Peter about how to use SHIFT and CTRL (CMD on Mac?) to adjust the KeyFramer will be included .

CTRL LMB moves pivot offset (pivot remains in place)
Shift RMB would bank it
CTRL RMB will change the z-value ( which is something else then scaling)
shift LMB adjust the Heading and pitch.

.