Video Input not working in 11.7 - now FIXED in 11.7.2 Topic is solved

[D.T. Nethery]

Video-In is not working at all for me. I have my Logitech C930e webcam plugged in to USB port on my computer , but TVPaint Video Input panel does not detect the device.

Other applications I have on my computer (iGlasses, Webcam Settings, Dragonframe) can detect and use the Logitech C930e webcam. Only in TVPaint the webcam does not show up in the Video-In panel. The only option shown in the Video Input panel under Device is "None".

The problem exists in versions 11.7 and 11.5.3. I did not notice it before now because I have not been using Video In for frame capture for a very long time, but recently I have been hired to work on a project animated traditionally with pencil on paper and I need a way to capture my drawings for making a pencil test. I have the Logitech webcam mounted on a copystand/downshooter and I was planning to frame capture my drawings into TVPaint using the Video In panel. (then once the drawings are captured into TVPaint I can Scan Clean them and make small fixes/adjustments in TVPaint using Transform/Warp tools without having to re-capture the drawings. It's very convenient). Although not as versatile for my purposes I will use Dragonframe to make pencil tests for my current project , but I hope the Video-In function in TVPaint can be fixed soon.

EDIT: This problem has now been resolved with release of version 11.7.2 on Dec. 5, 2023.

[Anim-Illustrate]

Hello.

I am experiencing the same issue.
I am on TVP 10.5.7 64bit on win 7 pro

I just hooked up my Canon rebel T1

TVP is not at all detecting the canon cam.

All other softwares with capability to detect for live view is detecting ok.

To make a "linetest" in TVP I need to use the canon software for capturing and from win explorer importing the stack of images. (Cumbersome)

It could be nice and cool for TVP to grab the image and place it in the X-sheet/Timeline straight away..


The only "grab"source I see in TVP is OBS virtual camera screencapture. ( Because I have OBS installed)

D.T. Nethery may I ask. Is Dragon Frame worth it, if one needs a linetester (Paper/Pencil)??

A-I

[ernesttx]

I'm not seeing a camera as well. I don't recall if TVPaint or OS prompted a message to "allow" camera connection. Checking System Settings > Privacy > Camera, I see 2 other apps that have access to camera and there does not seem to be an option to add a program to give access. I wonder does TVPaint request access to camera when installed? Also, wonder if re-install TVPaint will prompt request? I'm not sure how to re-install and have this WIBU thing see new install or do I have to re-install WIBU thing again and go through the hassle of reconnecting a license...ugh, why can't I be an artist and not tech support haha

I'm on MacBook Pro M1 Max, Ventura 13.1, TVPaint 11.5 (yes, I know update is there, but seems to be bugs in it and waiting on new update, also again, I'm not sure about re-install or update and this WIBU thing).

[D.T. Nethery]

Hello.

I am experiencing the same issue.
I am on TVP 10.5.7 64bit on win 7 pro

I just hooked up my Canon rebel T1

TVP is not at all detecting the canon cam.

Back when I used TVPaint 10.5.7 I never had any problem with TVPaint detecting my Logitech webcam. (my webcam also worked with TVPaint 11 and early versions of 11.5 on MacOS Sierra and Mojave. I've never tried using a Canon DSLR with TVPaint. I don't think DSLRs actually work with the Mac version of TVPaint.

I remember there was a list of specific Canon DSLR models that were compatible with TVPaint (on Windows-only) if you used the TVPaint Canon Video Plug-In.
I'm not sure if the Canon Rebel T1 was one of the compatible cameras listed. The Canon Video Plug-In used to be something you could download from the TVPaint website , but ever since the overhaul to the new minimalist version of the website I don't think it's available to download from the website anymore. It might not be supported anymore ? Anyway, the Canon Video Plug-In is irrelevant for those of us on Mac OS, because it is/was Windows-only.

And alternative for Windows users is a plug-in called SparkoCam, which will treat a DSLR like a webcam (so TVPaint can see it) . See this topic: viewtopic.php?p=111103 . SparkoCam is Windows-only (I'm on Mac), so I have not used it myself, but I had a student in one of my animation classes who successfully used it to get TVPaint to "see" his Canon DSLR so he could make frame captures directly into TVPaint. When my student used it , SparkoCam would appear under the list of available video devices in the Video-In panel.
Again,not relevant for your situation , because you are on Mac.

TVPaint user David Meslin reported that the software Elgato Cam Link 4k allows some DSLR and HD Video cameras to be used in TVPaint. viewtopic.php?p=121952#p121952

https://www.elgato.com/en/cam-link-4k

Here is the list of compatible cameras that work with Elgato Cam Link 4k - https://www.elgato.com/en/cam-link/camera-check

-----

All other softwares with capability to detect for live view is detecting ok.

Yes, this is an area where TVPaint needs improvement. No new development has been done on the Video-Input for many, many years. Video-In functioned ok with HD webcams ,but not DSLRs (except for a narrow range of older Canon DSLRs on Windows-only.) Canon and Nikon both have SDKs available for developers , so I think TVPaint should be updated to take advantage of using modern DSLRs. If it would support a wider range of cameras then TVPaint would be an excellent stop-motion animation program, as well as useful for shooting pencil on paper animation.

To make a "linetest" in TVP I need to use the canon software for capturing and from win explorer importing the stack of images. (Cumbersome)

It could be nice and cool for TVP to grab the image and place it in the X-sheet/Timeline straight away..

The only "grab"source I see in TVP is OBS virtual camera screencapture. ( Because I have OBS installed)

D.T. Nethery may I ask. Is Dragon Frame worth it, if one needs a linetester (Paper/Pencil)??

A-I

I have Dragonframe because I used it to teach a stop-motion animation class. To me, the nice thing about Dragonframe as a line tester is that it has a proper X-Sheet that is formatted exactly like a traditional X-Sheet. Dragonframe is meant for stop-motion ,but it works fine for shooting pencil on paper drawings.

Here is a video where the animator (Aaron Blaise) is shooting his drawings with Dragonframe starting at the 2:56:33 mark: https://youtu.be/j9yxYhVe2CU?t=10593


I'd prefer to capture my drawings directly into TVPaint (if they can get Video-Input working again) because then I can scan clean the captured drawings and make any small fixes/adjustments directly in TVPaint without necessarily having to re-shoot any drawings. (for a very short scene it's probably just as easy to re-shoot,but for a long scene that only has a few frames that need to be adusted I'd rather not re-shoot the whole thing ... of course the other thing that can be done is to shoot a short segment on a new layer , then merge the layers to combine them ... this only works if your downshooter camera and the peg bar hasn't been moved at all between shoots.

[D.T. Nethery]

I'm not seeing a camera as well. I don't recall if TVPaint or OS prompted a message to "allow" camera connection. Checking System Settings > Privacy > Camera, I see 2 other apps that have access to camera and there does not seem to be an option to add a program to give access. I wonder does TVPaint request access to camera when installed? Also, wonder if re-install TVPaint will prompt request? I'm not sure how to re-install and have this WIBU thing see new install or do I have to re-install WIBU thing again and go through the hassle of reconnecting a license...ugh, why can't I be an artist and not tech support haha

I'm on MacBook Pro M1 Max, Ventura 13.1, TVPaint 11.5 (yes, I know update is there, but seems to be bugs in it and waiting on new update, also again, I'm not sure about re-install or update and this WIBU thing).

Same for me on MacOS Monterey 12.5, Intel Mac Mini, TVPaint 11.5.3 and 11.7. Under System Settings > Privacy > Camera, I see several other apps that have been granted access to my camera , but as you say, there does not appear to be an option to add a program (TVPaint) to give it access to the camera. I don't recall TVPaint requesting access to my camera.
I suspect that TVPaint video input has been broken since MacOS Catalina was introduced. As I recall , video capture in TVPaint still worked for me (with my Logitech webcam) when I was on MacOS Mojave ... but it's been a while since I needed to use Video-Input , so maybe it was broken before Catalina (?) . I didn't switch from Mojave to Monterey until earlier this year. (I skipped Catalina and Big Sur.)

[D.T. Nethery]

I'm not seeing a camera as well. I don't recall if TVPaint or OS prompted a message to "allow" camera connection. Checking System Settings > Privacy > Camera, I see 2 other apps that have access to camera and there does not seem to be an option to add a program to give access. I wonder does TVPaint request access to camera when installed?

I think you are on to something that may prove to be the solution to the problem.

Because I know that Video-In was still working when I was running MacOS Mojave, I wonder if the problem is that on MacOS Monterey (and Big Sur and Catalina) with the stricter security settings, TVPaint does not present a pop-up to the user requesting permission to use the camera , so in Privacy & Security system preferences TVPaint does not have permission to access the camera ? In my Privacy & Security system preferences I can see a number of different applications that have been granted permission to access my camera, but TVPaint is not one of them and there is no way to manually add it to the list of programs with permission to access the camera.

Access Camera in Mac System Prefs.png (75.5 KiB) Viewed 13088 times

NOTE: on past versions of TVPaint when I was running my webcam through an app such as iGlasses (which allows the user to manually adjust exposure/white balance/focus on the webcam) TVPaint could "see" iGlasses as an available video input device, so I could select iGlasses as the input device. Now Video-In shows "None" as the only choice under device.

Screen Shot 2022-12-06 at 8.46.52 AM.png (27.11 KiB) Viewed 13087 times

This is how it used to appear in the Video-In panel, along with other available capture devices :

Screen Shot 2022-12-06 at 8.56.39 AM.png (53.57 KiB) Viewed 13082 times

.

[Anim-Illustrate]

Thanks for all the links !!


So many years,so many drawings lost.
Thanks.

[D.T. Nethery]

TVPaint Developers/Support:

Any progress on fixing the Video Input ?

(I'm asking because I'm about working on this project where the animation is on paper. I'm doing frame capture from my Logitech C930e HD webcam in Dragonframe to check the animation, but I would much prefer to frame capture into TVPaint using Video-In panel because when my pencil drawings are captured in TVPaint and I run the Scan Cleaner on the drawings , it is very easy for me to make quick fixes on the drawings directly in TVPaint without having to re-shoot the drawings on the downshooter to recompile a pencil test in Dragonframe.)

[ernesttx]

Yes, it would be nice to have support or dev chime in to say at least they are aware of this issue. Thanks all.

[D.T. Nethery]

Yes, it would be nice to have support or dev chime in to say at least they are aware of this issue. Thanks all.

I know for sure they're aware of it (from a PM) , but hoping that it might be getting close to a fix and wanted to get an update.

[Dean]

Hello, we are aware of this issue indeed. The way we can access video peripherals in MacOS has become trickier with each major update they release and we are still trying to think of a solution.

[D.T. Nethery]

Hello, we are aware of this issue indeed. The way we can access video peripherals in MacOS has become trickier with each major update they release and we are still trying to think of a solution.

I would think Apple has some sort of knowledge base for software developers to get information on how to keep track with changes to the MacOS ? Other applications I have which access a webcam continue to work with each update of MacOS without missing a beat: OBS Studio, Dragonframe, CamTwist Studio, iGlasses, Webcam Settings, Zoom, Skype.

Apple's AVFoundation documentation mentions this important point:

"In macOS 10.14 and later, the user must explicitly grant permission for each app to access cameras and microphones. Before your app can use the capture system for the first time, macOS shows an alert asking the user to grant your app access to the camera, as shown below. macOS remembers the user’s response to this alert, so subsequent uses of the capture system don’t cause it to appear again. The user can change permission settings for your app in System Preferences > Security & Privacy.

If your app uses device cameras, include the NSCameraUsageDescription key in your app’s Info.plist file.

If your app uses device microphones, include the NSMicrophoneUsageDescription key in your app’s Info.plist file."

The problem seems to be that TVPaint never asks for the user to grant permission to access the user's camera. So TVPaint can't be added to the list in System Preferences.

https://developer.apple.com/documentati ... ture_setup

https://developer.apple.com/documentati ... e_on_macos

[Thierry]

Hey David,

I would think Apple has some sort of knowledge base for software developers to get information on how to keep track with changes to the MacOS ?

They do have knowledge base, but only for their stuff, which we don't use.
You have to keep in mind that they design the majority of their environment to priorize distribution over the App Store, which we don't do for a lot of reasons.

We will find a way to make it work again, I am sure of it.
As to when, I have no idea, we'll see with the developers once the holidays are over.

[D.T. Nethery]

Hey David,

I would think Apple has some sort of knowledge base for software developers to get information on how to keep track with changes to the MacOS ?

They do have knowledge base, but only for their stuff, which we don't use.
You have to keep in mind that they design the majority of their environment to priorize distribution over the App Store, which we don't do for a lot of reasons.

We will find a way to make it work again, I am sure of it.
As to when, I have no idea, we'll see with the developers once the holidays are over.

I hope so. It seems to have been broken since Catalina ? (3 years!) By searching the forum I can see the issue was reported on the Tech Support forum in 2021 by user Riyart - viewtopic.php?p=131367 (and maybe some other reports which I missed ?) No one from TVPaint responded to the report from Riyart in 2021. Honestly, I did not much notice the problem because I stayed on Mojave for as long as possible (mainly so I could continue using the wonderful 32bit app Quicktime Pro 7), therefore I skipped updates to Catalina and Big Sur. Then when I got a new computer in July 2022 I was forced to make the leap to Monterey (I still miss Quicktime Pro 7 .) The issue came to my attention recently when I needed to use Video Input for line testing, but discovered to my dismay that the Video Input no longer works for TVPaint running on MacOS Monterey.



https://developer.apple.com/documentati ... to_capture

As I understand it, the solution (or, at least, part of the solution) to the problem is to enable TVPaint to request access to the camera through a pop-up notice to the user, so the user can give it permission to access the camera in the System Preferences:

"The app's Info.plist must contain an NSCameraUsageDescription
key with a string value explaining to the user how the app uses this data."

See:

https://developer.apple.com/documentati ... escription

https://developer.apple.com/documentati ... e_on_macos


When the user can add TVPaint to the list of applications that are allowed to access the camera then the issue should be resolved. But if the user never gets this pop-up to click OK to grant TVPaint access to the camera then the camera can not be used by TVPaint.

NOTE: I went back to check on my old Macbook (running MacOS Mojave) to confirm that TVPaint had this pop-up asking to give TVPaint permission to access the camera. It does have the pop-up:

Screen Shot 2022-12-26 at 5.41.51 PM 2.jpeg (58.26 KiB) Viewed 12723 times

This problem seems to be the result of the stricter security system in Catalina/Big Sur/Monterey because TVPaint 11.7.1 has no problem finding and using my webcam on my old Macbook running MacOS Mojave . (and running on MacOS Mojave TVPaint 11.7.1 can also access webcam controller software such as iGlasses , Elgato Camera Hub ,or CamTwist that are set up to use the webcam as a source. On Monterey these webcam controller softwares do not show up under 'Device' in the Video-Input panel like they do in Mojave.) I believe the answer is in the Apple AVFoundation guidelines for configuring the info.plist for the application. https://developer.apple.com/documentati ... ture_setup .

Here are the System Preferences > Security & Privacy > Camera on my old Macbook running Mojave:

Here is what it looks like in the System Preferences > Security & Privacy > Camera on my computer running MacOS Monterey. TVPaint is absent from the list because I never get the pop-up asking me to grant TVPaint access to the camera. All the other apps shown in this list have the pop-up which allowed me to grant the apps access to use the camera.

MacOS_System_Prefs_Security_Camera_Access.png (64.71 KiB) Viewed 12723 times

[D.T. Nethery]

I noticed that the recent build of the open source sofware Tahoma 2D (an offshoot of OpenToonz) now has support for camera capture. Because the source code is open it may be worth having a look at the code to see how they added this function to Tahoma. It might provide a clue to fixing Video Input for TVPaint (?) .

https://github.com/tahoma2d/tahoma2d/tr ... libgphoto2

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