JSON export: Export All Images changed behaviour in 11.7? Set to No is unusable.

[maara_p]

Hello,
I have a curious problem that we discovered after updating my colleague's TVP Standard to version 11.7.2. (to get the important feature of being notified when some layer has a space in its name which causes errors later in the AE import). I think the behaviour of the checkbox "Export All Images" changed a lot.

In my TVP PRO 11.5.3, I'm using this settings:

TVP_Pro_11-5-3_64bits_JSON.png (76.8 KiB) Viewed 3754 times

- Export All Images: Yes
- Ignore Duplicate Images: No (because that seemed to be the cause of AE import errors previously

And this settings seemed to be working for a long time. Meaning the result is limited number of PNGs + JSON that work correctly on AE import.

BUT

my colleague who uses the updated TVP STD 11.7.2 with the same settings (Export All: Yes, Ignore Duplicate: No) will not get limited number of PNGs but a PNG for every single frame of the timeline, obviously bloating the export times and sizes a lot. So suddenly we can't use our tested settings that used to work. We tried changing the Export All Images to No, keeping Ignore Duplicate on No:

Which resulted in nicely limited number of PNGs that are sadly useless because they are not imported correctly in AE (it causes the incorrect timing errors reported previously ).

Specifically - this timeline (which contains some empty instances):

... was reconstructed by the JSON AE import this way (omitting the empty instances, but messing up the timing of non-empty ones)

AE_Import_incorrect.png (94.45 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

This is a problem for us as the program changed behaviour unexpectedly and it's starting to cost us a lot of extra time. Now we can only correctly export our shots on one computer.

So right now I'm actually confused by what the options Export All Images and Ignore Duplicate Images are supposed to correctly do? Do you please have a clear definition?
And can you direct us to what we might yet try to get correctly working JSON exports from TVP STD 11.7.2?

// We're both on Windows 10 Pro and are using the latest JSON AE import script version 6.0.0 on default settings

JSON_import_6-0-0.png (17.89 KiB) Viewed 3754 times

[maara_p]

After some more testing and reading I can be more specific about this problem – I think what I need is to be able to check both: Export All Images AND Ignore Duplicate Images.
Because obviously the AE import script fails reconstructing empty instances when it doesn't have an empty PNG for them (I was surprised to find out that there seems to be no instances' durations data stored in the JSON exported from TVP 1.7.2, only timing of the "heads" of non-empty instances is defined duplicitely there and in images' filenames), so I do need the Export All Images checked.
But I also need the Ignore Duplicate Images now – after the Export All changed behaviour in new version(s) of TVP – to prevent exporting every single frame of the timeline, bloating export times to "infinity".

Sadly, being able to check both at the same time is another thing that changed in the new TVP version. Now they are mutually exclusive. This seems to be blocking the only workable way for us.

---------

Sidenote with a feature request: I think most people are not really clear in what Export All Images and Ignore Duplicate Images exactly do. It would be great to clarify it in the tooltip better. But also the option to export all Instances should be separate from export all Frames. In previous versions (specifically 11.5.3 Pro) the Export All Images actually behaved like "Export All Instances" (including empty ones), now in 11.7.2 it behaves like "Export All Frames".

[D.T. Nethery]

After some more testing and reading I can be more specific about this problem – I think what I need is to be able to check both: Export All Images AND Ignore Duplicate Images.
Because obviously the AE import script fails reconstructing empty instances when it doesn't have an empty PNG for them, so I do need the Export All Images checked.
But I also need the Ignore Duplicate Images now – after the Export All changed behaviour in new version(s) of TVP – to prevent exporting every single frame of the timeline, bloating export times to "infinity".

Sadly, being able to check both at the same time is another thing that changed in the new TVP version. Now they are mutually exclusive. This seems to be blocking the only workable way for us.

Thank you for researching the issue and posting your findings. Hopefully the behavior can be reverted to the previous behavior so that being able to check BOTH Export All Objects and Ignore Duplicate Images will be possible or some other solution for what to do with empty instances so the AE import script does not get confused when reconstructing the scene structure inside of AE.

---------

Sidenote with a feature request: I think most people are not really clear in what Export All Images and Ignore Duplicate Images exactly do. It would be great to clarify it in the tooltip better. But also the option to export all Instances should be separate from export all Frames. In previous versions (specifically 11.5.3 Pro) the Export All Images actually behaved like "Export All Instances" (including empty ones), now in 11.7.2 it behaves like "Export All Frames".

I agree. Export All Images and Ignore Duplicate Images needs to be explained better in the documentation or tutorials. And the option to export all Instances should be separate from export all Frames.

[Matthieu]

Hello maara_p and hello David,

Thank you for pointing this out. This change was asked for by several studios: they were surprised the "Export All" parameter would not export all of their projects' frames (including exposure cells). However, you are right in mentioning the fact that this behaviour can be detrimental when trying to move over to After Effects, as it will increase export times and sizes a great deal.

Personally, I would think that breaking down those two options into three switchable ones ("Export empty images" ; "Export duplicated images" ; "Export exposure cells") for the CSV-JSON-Named images exports would be best. To me, this would cover everything one could need while making the export parameters more understandable.

I would also want the "Export empty images" and "Export duplicated images" options to be turned on by default, whereas the "Export exposure cells" one would be off. This would ensure a normal operation of the AE import script with the default parameters. What do you think?

[maara_p]

Hello Matthieu,
thank you for the info and for wanting to make the JSON export clearer.

Yes, if I understand their meaning correctly I think these 3 options cover it well! And the default options seem reasonable to me (I think that is exactly the settings I would use).

I also wanted to put emphasis on the need to start storing data defining empty instances' durations in the JSON file (I only found data for the timing of heads of instances represented by images there, no data defining where they should end if empty (and not image-represented) part of timeline follows). This would enable to ensure that all combinations of the JSON export options could be working correctly (after updating AE import script accordingly). Currently only the exports with empty instances (and empty parts of timeline) represented by empty images have a chance of being imported right in AE.

[Matthieu]

Hello maara_p,

Thank you for your feedback! I will try to push this idea then.

I also wanted to put emphasis on the need to start storing data defining empty instances' durations in the JSON file (I only found data for the timing of heads of instances represented by images there, no data defining where they should end if empty (and not image-represented) part of timeline follows). This would enable to ensure that all combinations of the JSON export options could be working correctly (after updating AE import script accordingly). Currently only the exports with empty instances (and empty parts of timeline) represented by empty images have a chance of being imported right in AE.

I do agree as well. I will see what we can do about this, it may take a bit of time though