finished work: The Animator's Way of Surviving the Crisis

[toonsisters]

I believe that much of the problem stems from the overly protective attitudes of some of the members here who fear that these critiques are dangerous because they might discourage new artists from joining the forums or even from buying the software. Personally I am convinced that the opposite is the case

I do agree with Paul. I am also convinced that only honest but fair critics and discussion will raise the value of this program. This approves the impression of professionals using it. But I also see the danger of discouraging new artists. Maybe the TVPaint Team should consider splitting the wip animation forum part into one for beginners and one for advanced. People who post in advanced should be aware of being compared with the best. Persisting a high level discussion is an essential challenge for any artist in my opinion.

to Markus: I really enjoyed your film! I do know several animators who are exactly this type! I was laughing a lot! I will send them a link to your film for some fresh arguments against their wives.

I think the voices do fit the film in the overvoice parts. This is why I think the mismatch in the kitchen is caused by a missing kitchen atmosphere in the sound design .
And I do sense the female character a little overacting. A little less maybe would cause more humor. Like the mom of Calvin and Hobbes. Which I was positively reminded at.

All neat but I was missing personality.

I don't like to spend too much time with one project so I decided for the future

ouch.Can't agree, I am an alien from the other planet.

The old problem of art, entertainment and budged.
Isn't it a individual and personal decision, which compromises we all have to face hurt most?
Finding the way fitting best with oneself is one thing - but does it also fit with my partner is the other.

Like this little film is telling us about!
Thank you Markus!

vera

[toonsisters]

... only honest but fair critics and discussion will raise the value of this program. This approves the impression of professionals using it.

Sorry, wrong words. This raises the WORTH and it approves the FACT of professionals using it.

Vera

[Sierra Rose]

I have had some very useful feedback in the Bauhaus forums and even though some of it might seem harsh to others, it was on point and it was what I needed to hear in order to progress. I always felt that underneath it all, it was really friendly, generous even.

On this forum, the last time I posted something, I was basically ridiculed by one person, and then several people jumped in with comments that were just mean, like the first person had opened the door so it was safe to be as rude as you wanted. Then a couple of thoughtful people gave me some real feedback which wasn't overly "nice" but not unfriendly either and I felt content that I had learned from their feedback.

But I don't post my stuff here anymore, I have other people to get critiques from who aren't so unkind. Why would I want to run that gauntlet again?

[toonsisters]

I am sorry for that.
I like your work, especially the laughing baby.
I hope, I'll have the opportunity to see more of your work somehow else in the future.
If you like to have my personal feedback again, please feel free to contact me.

Obviously the interpretation of "fair" is quite different.
Maybe its a question of different mentalities?
Within Europe, the Germans are known as very direct and undiplomatic.
Sure these are prejudices in general, but sometimes I do miss a culture of compliments.
Often first point to mention is negative.
The opposite should be regular to support motivation.

I don't want to start a discussion about nationalities and cultivate prejudices.
But as far as we are an international community we can not ignore that point.
vera

[Sierra Rose]

Well thank you for the invitation. Since you were one of the people who really helped me, I might take you up on the invitation for feedback in future. I am only in my 6th year of drawing, but definitely I feel improvement. I am now making a little film for my granddaughter about a little girl who sleeps by the decorated holiday tree and is waked up by a tooth fairy who has her hair tangled in the tree and can't get free. (She couldn't help coming in to look at the beautiful tree even though she was actually picking up a tooth from the little boy next door.)
Warm regards...Sierra

[Animark]

Hi Vera, thanks for your critics and for suggesting my film to your friends. The film will be screened next time at the Landshuter Kurzfilmfestival, the 10th festival showing the film at all. I submitted it to about 70 festivals and my goal is, to hold my power till 100. I think, then I've done the best I could do for my film and I can leave it to be free for something new.

I've surfed your website and laughed a lot about the sauna film trailer. I think it is much better animated and timed as the older projects - and I want to see the hole movie . I like the way of selling your films as downloadable dvd files. I've bought the two films of Stephan Flint Müller in the past online and it works good.

Sauna Tango is stamped as a 2010 production. The classical way is, first sending a film to the festivals, then try to broadcast on tv and then try to sell it on dvd. Why do you sell your film on DVD first? I am asking, because after walked through the hell of festival submissions (I don't have any producer doing this job for me.) I am thinking about other/more possibilities of screening/broadcasting/selling independent short films.

Regards from Markus

[Paul Fierlinger]

I am asking, because after walked through the hell of festival submissions (I don't have any producer doing this job for me.) I am thinking about other/more possibilities of screening/broadcasting/selling independent short films.

Regards from Markus

Now you are talking my language here. I've been repeating this mantra of Internet distribution for what seems to be ages. I have devised a new strategy though; at first I wanted to make my Slocum film on my own expenses while working on small animation assignments such as TV spots and part time lecturing at a university, which is what I am carrying through. Further, my plan was to publish a very attractive book filled with illustrations (a coffee table type of book) that would be the package for the one hour long DVD. Just last night I ran into a new development, which turns my current strategy into the pass tense; through one of my small jobs I have been introduced to a book agent (a top echelon one) who is very interested in my book + DVD and we will be meeting very soon.

So imagine the switch I've run into: to get my DVD financed upfront and secured for future distribution, I will write and illustrate a book while I work on the film!

Look for a book agent friends, not a movie producer! And I agree about getting the film released on TV at the same time while the book is being sold -- but, it doesn't have to be even on TV -- perhaps even better is to release it on YouTube -- and for heaven's sake, I don't understand people who are so tight-lipped and secretive about their projects. What are they afraid of?

[slowtiger]

I don't understand people who are so tight-lipped and secretive about their projects. What are they afraid of?

Speaking for myself: because the fun is taken out of my very short films if I tell the story in advance? They're one-liners und must be treated like that, I mustn't spoil the punchline.

And for the long project: because it's still changing storyline and (nearly) everything. It was a huge leap for me to even unveil that little bit on my website. I feel that I might get nailed to certain paths when I publish them, and although it's just a feeling, it's uncomfortable enough to better avoid it. Besides that it's also the feeling that my stuff still isn't good enough.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Of course, I understand about the short-shorts

I feel that I might get nailed to certain paths when I publish them, and although it's just a feeling, it's uncomfortable enough to better avoid it. Besides that it's also the feeling that my stuff still isn't good enough.

So there you've explained what I was curious about. I, on the contrary, find the experience of putting all my cards on the table productive because the feedback gives me the first valuable reactions of what I should expect from an audience, therefore what mistakes I could avoid making before I dig too deep into making them -- because I too always feel that my stuff isn't good enough.

By repeating and explaining what it is I am working on I get to understand my material better... if I feel consistently uncomfortable with my own words which will be read by people completely unknown to me, I take this discomfort as a warning that I have not thought out my material well enough.

When proposing PBS for funding you are asked to describe your program (there word for what we call "film") over and over again with each new stage of processing your proposal. You are asked at the very beginning to explain your program in 25 words, later on explain it in one paragraph and later comes the treatment and then the synopsis, and along this path no one tells you whether they like it or not. But it accomplishes a lot in the process; it leads to better clarity in your own mind that you have it right; that you know what your goal is, because before I fill in the next stage of the proposal I write and rewrite the required form and mention this on some forum where I get feedback (if I'm lucky) so that by the time I reach the end and have financing approved (if I'm lucky) I feel more secure about what I am getting myself into.

[toonsisters]

Sauna Tango is stamped as a 2010 production. The classical way is, first sending a film to the festivals, then try to broadcast on tv and then try to sell it on dvd. Why do you sell your film on DVD first? I am asking, because after walked through the hell of festival submissions (I don't have any producer doing this job for me.) I am thinking about other/more possibilities of screening/broadcasting/selling independent short films.

Dear Markus,

thank you for your interest. I will post a SAUNA TANGO thread into animation forum very soon.
After I experienced three films joining festivals an getting a distribution contract or not, I came to the conclusion that it is other people earning my money. Especially for animation films.The relation of budget to film minutes is very bad. It is like producing one delicious praline and sell it for the kg price of factory chocolate.
The highest wave of attention my films surfing upon is the festival time. This is when people are enthusiastic about it and easy to catch.
When I see a wonderful film at a festival I would love to have it right away and even pay a little fee! Collecting my favourites and making my own DVD compilation. (Think about festivals selling the films they show and sharing the fees with the artists. Bad idea?)
In most cases I have to wait two ore more years until it might be published somewhere and I forget it.
So I attached a notice to my endtitles to watch and buy this film on my website and now, the film is starting festivals tour I just wait and see.
It is just a try. What can I loose? Only the premiere festivals like Berlinale will refuse it. But point 1 - they are much more for art than entertainment and point 2 - there are many many other festivals, more normal people are visiting. This is my target audience!
I hope it will work out.
Let's see.
Ask again next year.
Vera

[Animark]

Vera, I think it is a good decision. There is not much to loose. I decided after a half year to publish my film online for free, because I made it for an audience and because of it's up-to-the-minute theme. I also like your idea, to print a message in the credits where to buy your film online. I will do like you next time. For me it is a good feeling when I am buying an art product most closely from the artist, because ist also my experience of the last years, that a lot of people are able to make money with my animations, except me - in case of submisson works i did.

This time I personally found a good way for me to work on own projects. I am working part time as a teacher and together with my wife we earn exactly the money we need to live. We also have two kids to entertain. I often talked with other animators about the possibilities of earning money with animation, and - much more difficult, how to do it with own films. I didn't find a good answer yet. But - and here I can see Pauls Book+DVD-Concept as an very good example for thinking in new ways - I was very inspirated by a book about modern digital bohemians. It's called "Wir nennen es Arbeit" (We call it work) and it's about todays strategies of creative workers to sell/distribute their products. It is funny written and in our situation worth to read it - not to put too much attention on every word, but this book changed my view on my own situation a bit in a positive way.

I wish you all the best with your film and that your concept will work in a best way.

[toonsisters]

Thank you , all the best for your last and your next project, too.

I hope we all will find the producers way of surviving the crisis.

Hope to meet you in person soon.
When I visit Berlin I'll let you know.
Vera

[grumbleboy]

I've purchased a DVD in the past from Don Hertzfeldt, the creator of "Rejected" and "Lily and Jim" etc. Very funny animated shorts in a stick-figure style that he sells himself through his Bitter Films (http://www.bitterfilms.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) website. As far as I know, that is his only method of distribution for his work. He used to be involved in running an animation festival with Mike Judge, but I don't think does that anymore.

[Animark]

Ah, yes, Don Hertzfeldt. His DVDs shows one important thing in personal DVD distribution: Make something special to boost the attraction for someone to buy your DVD. In my opinion this is a good way to offer something that download portals cannot give. Maybe it should be something haptic: An illustrated book (look at Pauls posting), a personal designed booklet, a t-shirt, a coffee cup, ... It sounds a little bit strange, but I think If someone can show his decision, that he bought a product from the artist and not downloaded it (e.g.), it gives a good feeling to the buyer. I also think that the personality of a product is very important. Today its possible and easier than ever to make those products. I remember a book where every cover was individually sprayed - none book of the hole series looks like the other.

The last DVD I purchased not directly, but I think very close from the artist was "Skhizein" from Jérémy Clapin.

And Paul, yes, finding someone who will support and finance ourself while making the own films would be great. I would give my voice for kind of an art patronage for animators. .

[Paul Fierlinger]

But Mark, you are on the right track, you won't need a Mecenas, you're almost there. Sandra adds one of her signed, hand painted flowers to every DVD we sell and we get feedback that people have it framed on their walls. To have the films sell, it must be useful to people; either as a gift or as a story of encouragement (self-help) or something difficult for people to explain in their own words so they can take the DVD to relatives and friends and say, You have to watch this; it says exactly what I've been trying to explain to you for years.

One of my students is working on a film about why he loves trains to send around to relatives and friends and his train modeler friends are waiting to send his DVDs to their people. Our dog films work that way too -- people want them to show why they love dogs and once Tulip comes out, they might use her to explain why they hate dogs.

I am working on an idea with the cartoonist Patrick McDonnell of the Mutts cartoons to put out little books with his short Mutts episode on the few pages and in the DVD, to become gift items -- better gift cards...(he has a huge following; featured in over 700 newspapers around 30 countries) There are lots of ideas that can be implemented without much investment needed in time or money. And the reason I'm not keeping any of this a secret is self serving: the more of us who put these things out, the better, because it thus becomes a "common" product and people have many different tastes and the more variety, the better the little books will sell.