Compounded Question

[slowtiger]

I'm on a Mac too, just by coincidence my first computer was a Mac, and so I stuck to it - I did't like to waste time with what seemed to be every Windows users favourite pastime: re-installing the system ...

Some things I don't think about because I'm so used to it: I use a desktop mac, not a laptop. Therefore I have all the necessary slots and plugs for whatever extension I want to connect, and I have the space for a second drive inside the Mac. Out of habit I have a duplicate of the OS on that second drive so I can start the Mac even in case of serious trouble. And since I'm paranoic I keep another system on external drives so I could start from that as well.

[SuperTonic]

Thanks malcooning!

I've read about RAID and SCSI in the past. Right now my laptop is a MacBook and I try to keep it as mobile as possible when it comes to not carrying any extra accessories. My main computer is an iMac (although in reality I spend more time on on the prior, but let's go on) so the hardware flexibility is very slim because the entire enclosure is really not expandable except for the RAM --which for my generation I just maxed out.

Myself, I tend to give my computers as a whole package, and end of usable life. Right now I'm satisfied with the performance... and can't really justify doing an external array. But once I get into more rendering intensive applications like Maya and Final Cut Pro, and start squeezing more of the creative juice in the next couple year or so, I have my eyes set on a Mac Pro --I plan to run RAID5, and a Nvidia Quadro... but aren't we all $8K away from that pipe dream.

And David, the best you can do is to be involved --in general there is so much change, options and incompatibilities so broad, some times I pretend like I don't know squat. And the reason for this statement is because I used to work in a call center doing tech support on my first job. I build my first PC after taking an A+ course and had to troubleshoot it right after I took it home. My job description at the time also required me to do so some Dial-Up and Email assistance (among other things) for Mac users. So I really bought my first MacBook because I got tired of walking across the building to test on a Macintosh II running OS 7 (and those web Cheetah simulators where not cutting it for me). So I really became an official Mac user as a personal experiment! Shortly after that I gave my PC away and multiple versions later I haven't looked back.

I still work with Windows every day, but that's just because is my workstation, and I accept it that way. But I carry my MacBook around as my "real" computer.

[ematecki]

"data storage device" implies an external device , not a second internal drive.

Why ? If it meant external, that would be "external data storage device".

Just for the record: I successfully use external Firewire drives on my Mac with TVP.

Yes, FireWire drives works really great. You really get the advertised speed (40Mb/s for FW400, 80Mb/s for FW800).
Nothing to do with the sluggish USB drives where 25Mb/s is kind of a world record !

(but yes, my external Firewire drive has seemed to function just fine as the temp directory , so I am still a little confused ... perhaps if I switch to using an ExpressCard with eSATA ports and a drive with eSATA interface I will suddenly see the light and realize what I've been missing all these years in terms of speed ? )

That depends on your FW speed, if it's FW400, yes it will be about twice as fast, but if it's FW800, the additionnal 20% (in peek performance, not average...) aren't worth the trouble for switching to eSATA, which is very unreliable (our own experience with WesternDigital external drives for backing up our server, we use them now with USB but that's soooo slow)! And the maximum length of the cable is like 30cm (one foot) (sure some people are using longer cables, but seeing the problems you already get with the maximum recommended length, that's really looking for trouble).

Anyway, we well try to makes this more easy to understand in the next release of the manual/appendix, but basically, the thing to remember is "the faster the better", being it system drive, second internal drive, 'real' HD or SSD, external FW/eSATA or even USB, choose the fastest drive for your temp drive (as long as there are enough Gigs free on it, 'enough' being dependent of the kind of work you do).
Oh, and test the speed of your drives, don't expect the manufacturer speeds to be accurate !!!!

Eric M.

[Sewie]

Oh, and test the speed of your drives...

Would I need special software to do this ?

[ematecki]

Yes and no.
Google should find one for you...

Or else...
I just copy a 5Gb file (bigger is even better) from the drive to test to itself and measure the time it takes.
This measures both read and write speed intermixed while the computer is running normally, close to the way TVPA will access the temp file.
This isn't "exact", but will give you *real life* speeds, not speeds the manufacturer will use in it's advertising !
Be sure the file you will copy sits already for a long time on your drive without having been accessed, or else some part of it may already be in RAM cache and thus give false results !
The best way to ensure it is not in the cache is to reboot... I know, you may have forgotten how to do this on the Mac where it's something you do really rarely :)

Eric M.

[Sierra Rose]

I had a RAID striped thingy (I don't understand computer inner workings either) and it was the noisiest damned thing even if it worked very fast. I was glad when we got a new computer without the RAID.

[D.T. Nethery]

"data storage device" implies an external device , not a second internal drive.

Why ? If it meant external, that would be "external data storage device".

Eric M.

Well for some reason that is how I perceived the description of the "data storage device" (Am I alone in that perception ? Ok, then I stand corrected. ) "Data storage device" to my non-technical mind implies something outside of the main computer.

If a second internal hard drive is what was intended all along then I would think the user manual would simply say: "The ideal Temp Directory is a second internal hard drive , or if a second internal hard drive is not possible then use a partition of the main hard drive" or something like that . Then it would also say : "If an external drive is used as the Temp Directory then a RAID stripe or SSD device will be fastest , but a Firewire external drive is also usable. However a USB drive is NOT recommended because USB data transfer rate is not fast enough." .


So, anyway, at this point I have a Macbook Pro, Processor : 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo , Memory: 4GB 1067 MHz DDR3 . Hard drive - 500 GB , 363 BG available .

If I partition part of the hard drive to serve as the Temp Directory for TVP how much space should I allocate to the partition ?

[ematecki]

A partition wouldn't make your drive faster, and then either it will be too big and you waste space on your HD, or it will be too small and TVPA doesn't like that !

[D.T. Nethery]

A partition wouldn't make your drive faster, and then either it will be too big and you waste space on your HD, or it will be too small and TVPA doesn't like that !

Ok.

Then my only option on the Macbook is an external device (firewire drive , or better an ExpressCard with eSATA ports, and a drive with eSATA interface) ?

[malcooning]

If I partition part of the hard drive to serve as the Temp Directory for TVP how much space should I allocate to the partition ?

You don't really need to partition your drive in order to set a temp drive location. you can simply select a location on your hard rive for the temp files.
Still, partitioning does give a slight advantage, especially when more than 2/3 of your drive gets full. By putting a temp file in a separate partition you ensure that the data stored in that partition will not get fragmented by the filling-up hard drive. Thus, the access to the temp data will be quicker (direct and unfragmented, which means the Disk's arm has to travel less back and forth across the platter. SSD drives are faster, because they have no mechanical parts in them). And for this you can simply set a logical drive partition of 10GB (depending on your projects, it is likely you'll never pass the 3GB temp file size). This will give you plenty room.

There are a couple more pluses to having the temp on your internal drive: you save up energy by not powering up an external drive, and you ease on your cpu from processing the throughput to and from the Firewire. Overall speed is debatable because when storing a temp file on your system drive, you burden on the hard drive, as it has to read this temp file, and also the temp files used by the OS. This uped activity slows down the system a bit, but as far as TVP is concerned your access speed will still be faster than with an external drive. but tests will show it better. You can download the free HDtach utility which tests drive very easily, with clear output.

[malcooning]

David, this is a bit of a tech thing, but in order to test if you can see any improvement in performance, you can create a RAM drive.
Download this Utility
This utility takes a defined portion of you system RAM, and creates a drive out of it. The speed of this drive will be way faster than anything you can use.
Try to define a 2GB drive, give it a drive letter, and you'll see it showing up in you Finder as a new drive.
Then, in TVP, set this drive as the location for your temp files. Restart TVP.
Additionally, as Herve recommended, go to TVP preferences, and set your cache size to 256MB.

[slowtiger]

"Data storage device" to my non-technical mind implies something outside of the main computer.

A lot of people just forget that this is exactly what their main volume, their internal hard drive is.

Please refrain from even mentioning RAID together with speed - it has nothing to do with that. RAID is a concept connected to data security, not speed.

I agree that a general description of a useful computer setup could be included in the manual. Something like this:
- have a fast processor and a big fat fast disc
- have a physical second fat fast internal disc
- assign this second disk to store the temp files
- have any number of external discs for backup, Firefire recommended, USB being too slow to work directly from thopse volumes

[malcooning]

"Data storage device" to my non-technical mind implies something outside of the main computer.

Please refrain from even mentioning RAID together with speed - it has nothing to do with that. RAID is a concept connected to data security, not speed.

Wrong.
RAID 0 is a stripe with no mirroring. It gives you no data redundancy whatsoever, but the speed is the sum of all the striped drives together.
Other RAIDs give you some redundancy, and others give you full Redundancy.

http://i.gizmodo.com/5166798/24-solid-s ... -5-seconds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SuperTonic]

Well for some reason that is how I perceived the description of the "data storage device" (Am I alone in that perception ? Ok, then I stand corrected. )

If I was to read a recommendation stating, please keep your Tax Files and you Photos stored in a "Data Storage Device" I would assume the context of the statement refers to something else, other than your C:\ drive or your Boot Drive, because by any standard way of thinking, all apps and documents are first stored by default on your main HD.

So I agree your your David on that...

[Sierra Rose]

So I looked at my computer again and now I have RAID - mirror instead of RAID striped. The mirror is not noisy. Is the mirror a kind of partition?