increase layer length on twos

[hilere]

When adding images to a layer the increase layer length requester pops up asking the settings you want for the added images. Since most animators work on twos all the time it would be interesting to have the option here to put the added instances immediately on twos. Saves us to do it manually every time.

[ZigOtto]

it's rather easy to make a custom button for adding Instance + adding 1 exposure in once, and assign it to a shortkey :

addInstanceInTwos.png (7.19 KiB) Viewed 28313 times

[hilere]

thanks again Zigotto. But this is not the point. I am just suggesting (for a future version) it might be interesting to have this a standard setting where you can choose it standard always puts it on ones or twos (trees,fours,...) when you pull the instance handle (or whatever this is called) longer to add images.
I don't know whether I am the only one thinking this would be handy....because in that case I will do it with pushing buttons. No problem. It's just a small one.

[Paul Fierlinger]

hilere, I'm not sure that you are correct when you say that most people work in two's -- or to be precise, my final films are indeed in two's but I draw in singles. I work with only two speeds; 24fps and 30 fps. When in 24, I draw singles in a project of 12 fps and on export to my final format I set the export panel to 24 fps. When I work for TV, my projects are set to 15 fps and I export in 30 fps (or 29,97 -- which is really nonsense unless we are talking about 30 minute or one hour specials).
There will always be exceptions when I will need a portion of a project to be animated in singles and a portion in two's but those are rare and not difficult to deal with. I do use a script which I paid someone to create for me, to layout empty tween frames in 1's, 2's, 3's, 4's, 8's and variable tweens.
So typically I know the length of my next move and will draw the first and last images (keys) and use my script to create a blank frame in the middle and then between those three frames etc. This script I use all the time, whether I draw in singles or 2's. I think this is what you are talking about.

[hilere]

Yes, Paul, but everyone works different. Personally I work generally on twos, but in fast actions (for example) I switch to ones. And I like to have a constant correct timing reference when replaying. So working on 12s for me is not an option.
In my case it would be a good thing to have a general setting to automatically give you twos (otherwise I would not have suggested it of course).

[Paul Fierlinger]

Exactly, this is what I was referring to as well; not most of us work in two's, as you were saying, but we all work differently. The script I had someone make for myself would answer your needs as well but I withheld the name of the person because what often happens is that he gets inundated with questions and requests but no one is actually interested in purchasing the result of his labors. If you are interested in paying a nominal fee for something very useful to you, I will give you the information once you (or anyone else) PM's me.

[ZigOtto]

... Personally I work generally on twos, but in fast actions (for example) I switch to ones.

I am not sure to get exactly how you are working now, if you're animating at the final framerate (24 or 25i/s), do you need to add instances in twos or to convert existing instances in twos ?
do you mean "add 1 exposure on the whole layer", "... or on a selected range of frames, ... or only when creating/inserting a new instance,
when dragging the layer end-handle ... or an Instance's tail ... ???
if it's to convert a whole layer made of single-frame instances into "twos" instances, [Select All + Add 1 Exposure] would do the job ...

Sorry but your request is not very clear to me, so can you describe more precisely your workflow and what tool you are looking for ?

[slowtiger]

I think he means while adding frames to a layer there should be an additional option "add frames plus n exposures to each". This would make sense. Right now I have to select all or a portion of a layer and press that "+1" button - that's one additional click (and search for that button again).

[hilere]

if it's to convert a whole layer made of single-frame instances into "twos" instances, [Select All + Add 1 Exposure] would do the job ...

This is what I do now. My only suggestion is that when you drag an instances tail, and you get the "increase layer length" requester there could be an option where you can say how many images each added instance should count...and it would be handy it remembers the last setting.
Just a matter of automatising a handling one does over and over again (even though it is just selecting the new instances and pushing the +1 button). Nothing more.

Slowtiger understood exactly what I meant.

[ZigOtto]

I think he means while adding frames to a layer there should be an additional option "add frames plus n exposures to each".

ok, adding frames, but by which way ?
well, adding N frames (or more precisely N new instances) + add 1 exposure to them can be scripted and buttonized, I don't get the missing point.
I'm not for adding, adding and adding options, making the UI menus heavier and more cumbersome, I always prefer specific tools you can call or hide as wished.

... My only suggestion is that when you drag an instances tail, and you get the "increase layer length" requester

frame, instance, image, exposure, ... it seems it's hard to go further when we're not speaking the same language : when dragging an instance's tail (little grey square at the right-down corner of the instance's ending frame), you never get the "increase layer length" requester, you get this requester only when dragging the end-handle (white bar) of the animlayer.
if you drag this layer handle, say of 3 frames, and want to have 3 instances with 2 exposures each, or in total 6 frames, it's not very logical to me,
a little tool (script with shortkey) to add N frames and to double the added frames (add 1 exposure to each) should works perfectly in this case.

[hilere]

frame, instance, image, exposure, ... it seems it's hard to go further when we're not speaking the same language : when dragging an instance's tail (little grey square at the right-down corner of the instance's ending frame), you never get the "increase layer length" requester, you get this requester only when dragging the end-handle (white bar) of the animlayer.

Please dont't make it harder than necessary. I just try as hard as I can to explain what I mean. Don't get frustrated because I don't use the exact terminology. I'm an animator, not a programmer.

if you drag this layer handle, say of 3 frames, and want to have 3 instances with 2 exposures each, or in total 6 frames, it's not very logical to me

For me as an animator who most of the time works on twos it seems very logical, and doing it by dragging 6 frames, resulting in 3 instances with 2 exposures each (not dragging 3 frames to get 3 instances with 2 exposures each) is a much faster way than dragging 3 frames to get 3 instances of 1 exposure each, then select the instances you just created, and then search for the +1 button to end up with the same result of 3 instances with 2 exposures each.

I'm not for adding, adding and adding options, making the UI menus heavier and more cumbersome, I always prefer specific tools you can call or hide as wished.

I understand you don't want to overload the user interface, but when I look at the Increase layer length requester I see a lot of settings I never change during workflow, and still everytime I drag the layer handle I have to hit enter to get rid of this requester I never use. If we're talking about simplifying the UI, maybe it's an idea to move this requester to the preferences, similar as what Photoshop does.
Every animator works in his way, and once the settings set everything does what it has to do. So moving this requester to the settings makes the user interface easier to work with. And in the preferences it should not be a problem to have a setting that gives you twos (threes,...) immediately...because, let's face it, almost everyone works on twos (or threes for the manga fans).

[ZigOtto]

... For me as an animator who most of the time works on twos it seems very logical, and doing it by dragging 6 frames, resulting in 3 instances with 2 exposures each ...

ok, here we are, and what should we expected to get when dragging (by inadvertence?) 5, or 7 instead of 6 frames ?

... is a much faster way than dragging 3 frames to get 3 instances of 1 exposure each, then select the instances you just created, and then search for the +1 button to end up with the same result of 3 instances with 2 exposures each.

not necessary when using a shortkey which will do all that in a finger hit ! (my script idea).

...I understand you don't want to overload the user interface, but when I look at the Increase layer length requester I see a lot of settings I never change during workflow, and still everytime I drag the layer handle I have to hit enter to get rid of this requester I never use. If we're talking about simplifying the UI, maybe it's an idea to move this requester to the preferences, similar as what Photoshop does.
Every animator works in his way, and once the settings set everything does what it has to do. So moving this requester to the settings makes the user interface easier to work with. And in the preferences it should not be a problem to have a setting that gives you twos (threes,...) immediately...because, let's face it, almost everyone works on twos (or threes for the manga fans).

+1, you got exactly my point, and setting the (user default) action in the preference panel is a good suggestion, I cannot disagree with that >>> feature request .

... because, let's face it, almost everyone works on twos ...

if you say it, ... it must be true .
anyway, I won't really need such a tool, as I use a different workflow :
I draw the main keys, then I roughly time them (dragging/adding exposures to get the approximative timing),
then I "Break&Clear" inside the instances to add secondary keys, idem (Break&Clear) to insert inbetweens , etc...
and when I need to add a new instance, I add it mostly one by one (Insert New Instance after ...), rarely N instances in a shot.

... Every animator works in his way ...

[hilere]

ok, here we are, and what should we expected to get when dragging (by inadvertence?) 5, or 7 instead of 6 frames ?

In the case the setting is on +2 it should advance only in blocks of 2 of course. (when +3 advancing in blocks of 3,....)

not necessary when using a shortkey which will do all that in a finger hit ! (my script idea).

I draw the main keys, then I roughly time them (dragging/adding exposures to get the approximative timing),
then I "Break&Clear" inside the instances to add secondary keys, idem (Break&Clear) to insert inbetweens , etc...

My workflow here is pretty much the same in general. But sometimes I go straight ahead. And this is where the suggested option becomes handy.
But again...I am happy whichever way TVP evolves. I'll be happy to keep doing it manually (because it's not that it is so much of a hassle to do anyway). It was just a suggestion to help streamline the workflow.

The beauty of TVP is that any animator can change the UI to work with his way of working.

[ZigOtto]

... The beauty of TVP is that any animator can change the UI to work with his way of working.

exactly ! and when the animator changes his way of working, it's really easy to modify the UI and to adapt custom palettes and shortkeys to his new way,
so it's always a pleasure to experiment off the beaten track, and not staying sticked into routine, applying animator's old tricks of the trade ...
it's definitively a software for creators .

[Paul Fierlinger]

This part of TVP is at once my joy and my curse. My joy to work with but my pain to teach with. Sometimes demoing TVP straight out of the box makes me feel like a newbie all over again. If I wouldn't have a convincing track record and work to show for it, my students would have to think of me as an old dunce who can't remember his own software. I am so dependent on plugins and scripts and personal key commands that it would take me half a semester just to teach how to use what I've developed for myself. So I must teach out of the box and muddle through it the best I can.