I'd like to try again

[Cloakndagger]

I realize now I've been asking the wrong questions, so I wanted to start over.

I'm not exactly sure where I want to go professionally. My goal is to have a story produced into a television series, and to have a personal hand in the stylistic and animated properties of it, with a team of animators and writers. As I'm not a professional, nor in the industry yet, I don't know exactly what this entails, so I'm here to ask you, the experts. Personal inspirations have been Shinichiro Wantanabe and his series Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo. If it matters, I'm aiming toward traditional Japanese Animation with my own twist, but I'm not sure if preference of style is a factor in what career paths I should take.

I want to note that I'm willing to point myself in whatever direction is necessary, be it school, geographical, social, whatever.

I'm looking for a roadmap, and it's hard to tell the truth from the fiction in my google searches regarding the industry, so I ask you all. Thanks in advance by the way, the few of you who've responded to me thus far have given me lots to work with. I've picked up David Levy's Your Career in Animation: How to Survive and Thrive and once I finish this I'll be picking up his next two volumes, for anyone who's familiar with his books.

[Fabrice]

Just for information :
Most of the stories from japanese animes, comes from japanese manga writers, and were adapted for the TV because of the success of the manga. (Ten-Zero please feel free to rectify me if I'm wrong)
The japanese industry has a different way to think.

Also, about making stories : in many places (Ottawa or Annecy festival), you can pitch a project and then be recognized or maybe financed by a producer.
But you need to show some success in your works to them. (prizes in festivals or such things ...)

I hope it helps, sorry for not giving more details, I don't have many time those days.

I realize now I've been asking the wrong questions, so I wanted to start over.

Good point here : you didn't stop at the first attempt. Please follow this way of thinking and working in all of your animation work, that's a key.
You are more than welcome.

[v.veidt]

Well, let me start by telling you that very few animators will ever get their own show, especially with the market as it is today. There are plenty of options to consider, though. Here are a few:

If you want to take the traditional route to getting your own show, you need not work in animation at all. It's particularly common in Japan, but in the US, Canadian, and French markets as well, for a comic book to be adapted for television or film. That way, you control all the elements you want until signing the property over to a network for animation production. That can backfire severely, though, as every network I've dealt with has wanted to alter the content for a more general audience. That's just how networks are run.

If comics aren't your cup of tea (I personally loathe working in comics), the next option is to simply pitch. Pitch frequently, consider the networks' suggestions, and don't get your hopes up. I've pitched three properties in the US and Canada and the networks wanted me to retool two of them to include a school setting. There are a lot of hazards in pitching. Even if the networks like your pitch, it likely will not survive the pilot phase. There's only so much airtime and the primary concern of any network is advertising money.

That said, you should want to work in the industry because, if nothing else (I mean it, I'll get into it later), it will allow you to make friends who will support your creative ventures. Considering the description you wrote, I would advise you to pursue concept art or art direction. Both are high-demand specialties which will allow you to make connections and build a respectable portfolio along the way. I warn you though, one does not simply start out in either field, there's a lot of work to do beforehand. If you're not terribly adamant about drawing for a living (in which case, why would you be here?), writers are far more likely than animators to develop and successfully pitch a series.

I said I would get into it, so here it goes. When I said "if nothing else, it will allow you to make friends…", I meant that there is a plague in the animation industry today (particularly in the US), one which allows anyone to rise to the top through association alone. Pick up any copy of Animation Magazine and you'll find a similar story; a lawyer, dentist, truck driver, or just friend of an executive producer at any given network is given a show based solely on that association. These people are usually quoted saying something along the lines of "I never thought about working in cartoons, it just kind of fell in my lap". I've met art directors who never learned to draw, 17 year old producers with family connections, creative directors who admit to having no interest in their show, and one producer who knew so little about the industry that she didn't hire storyboard artists because she assumed that the animators did it naturally. If you want my honest advice, stay away from the regular channels, instead opting for:

Independent Content

There are plenty of options here, far more than you will ever find through a network. The real beauty of independent work, though, is that as long as you're willing to make it, the show will be made. Sometimes this will lead to more traditional opportunities (look into the internet/TV series "China, IL" and the feature film "9") but, regardless, your creation will be made.

There are a number of successful independents on this forum, most of whom will be happy to share advice. What you'll likely hear the most, though, is that the internet is the future.

It's true, on the internet, nobody will tell you that you can't make a film or that there isn't enough airtime. Nobody will tell you to change your concept to appeal to a target demographic. You're free to make whatever you want. With that in mind, it's not all pleasant. There are more websites today than there are people on this planet to view them. Conservative estimates vary between 40 and 70 billion websites. It's incredibly difficult to stand out in the crowd. Atop that, it's more difficult to make money from it. While one can earn a healthy living from web ads, I had a friend who used to make close to USD 50000 per year from a ring of websites, most people will struggle to make USD100. The obvious solution is to do what the networks do, solicit a corporate sponsor, but one must first have a steady viewership and a record of consistently posting new material on schedule. Then comes the matter of initial funding, one must pay for hosting, a website, various distribution methods, and the cost of producing animation itself. Let me tell you, that's no small task. Fortunately, there are options to "crowd-source" funding by having potential fans donate to your project. I personally use indiegogo.com and kickstarter.com. Of course, by the time you're ready to actually make a series, the internet will be a very different place. It's up to you to follow the trends until you're prepared.

Second to the internet is the independent film market. Unfortunately, series aren't very welcome here. Instead, there are direct-to-video and, now, iTunes and Netflix type options. My wife is even considering making an app for the iPhone to make her shorts available and still earn ad revenue.

There's a lot more specific advice I can give, but I need to know more about your aspirations. Think about it for a little while, but also think about this: What's more important, making money or making your show?

[Cloakndagger]

There is no choice there: Making my own show.

It's all about getting the message out there. Yes, I would love to sustain myself on it, but that's as far as my monetary aspirations go. I'm not looking for any big paychecks. I prefer a great story and a legacy. I'm not intimidated by the odds. I understand them, but no one got anywhere by shying away, and I know my talents and work ethic.

I feel like I could make minute-long trailer of a series I have in mind, and use that to pitch. Would that be an effective strategy? I would love to be 10 different people and sit at home cranking out a quality piece of work, but I'll need hlep, and it seems a studio is the main way to go. I understand there may be a pool of independent artists out there I might network and collaborate with, but I wouldn't know where to start in that regard. What I have so far are my talents and tools.

As far as the rampant cronyism in animation, unfortunately that facet of life isn't unique to animation, or entertainment in general. Companies, politics, most work envrionments, most social groups all suffer from this in one form or another. As such, I'm used to it, and I'm confident my work will stand on its merit alone.

[slowtiger]

The main point still is: how much do you draw? All successful animation directors I've seen had a large body of work prior to their first gig as director. You just need to have plenty to show.

It's really not about "that one scene" or "that 1 minute trailer" being perfect and polished to death (as Paul righly noted). Show your brilliance by being a big firework of ideas, by drawing each and everything in every free moment, and then move on to the next idea.

Some animator's blogs which show just how much diversity each of them masters, and still they're not invited to do their own series. Note how important it is to show sketches of people.
http://heidschoetter.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://jorgemcuellar.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://mattjonezanimation.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (watch these sketches!)
http://haraldsiepermann.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (this guy of course gets jobs!)
http://clockroom.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://pitchbibles.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Actual pitch documents, quite helpful.

http://julyfilms.com/blog/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - this guy does his own feature - for years now.

[idragosani]

There are more websites today than there are people on this planet to view them. Conservative estimates vary between 40 and 70 billion websites. It's incredibly difficult to stand out in the crowd.

I think those numbers are a wee bit high... it's more like 200-300 million sites worldwide... and about 10-11 billion separately indexed pages. But your point is correct, there's a lot of competition, but if you are authoring your own content online, you are in complete control of its distribution, content and marketing. Targeting specific market segments is the way to go (rather than trying to appeal to the masses) -- like the anime/manga audience, or whatever.

[v.veidt]

There are more websites today than there are people on this planet to view them. Conservative estimates vary between 40 and 70 billion websites. It's incredibly difficult to stand out in the crowd.

I think those numbers are a wee bit high... it's more like 200-300 million sites worldwide

You're right, I should have said pages instead of sites, but the numbers I've researched are still in the 40+ billions. Of course, these estimates include every blog, social media page, forum page, and parked website as well.

[v.veidt]

There is no choice there: Making my own show.

It's all about getting the message out there. Yes, I would love to sustain myself on it, but that's as far as my monetary aspirations go. I'm not looking for any big paychecks. I prefer a great story and a legacy. I'm not intimidated by the odds. I understand them, but no one got anywhere by shying away, and I know my talents and work ethic.

I feel like I could make minute-long trailer of a series I have in mind, and use that to pitch. Would that be an effective strategy? I would love to be 10 different people and sit at home cranking out a quality piece of work, but I'll need hlep, and it seems a studio is the main way to go. I understand there may be a pool of independent artists out there I might network and collaborate with, but I wouldn't know where to start in that regard. What I have so far are my talents and tools.

As far as the rampant cronyism in animation, unfortunately that facet of life isn't unique to animation, or entertainment in general. Companies, politics, most work envrionments, most social groups all suffer from this in one form or another. As such, I'm used to it, and I'm confident my work will stand on its merit alone.

You have a great attitude, I hope you manage to keep it. Don't let yourself become cynical, I found out the hard way that it destroys one's ambitions.

Do yourself a favour right now and write down your motivations for this career path. If you can, laminate it and carry it in your wallet. This is a very long journey you're about to begin and your motivations at the start act as your compass. The last thing you want is to lose your way.

That said, I've pitched before and can advise you on the process. No, a trailer won't cut it unless they come to you. What you need is experience, skill, and a pitch bible. If you have that one big idea you want to create, put it on paper. Fill an entire portfolio with the groundwork of your pitch. They want to see stories (you have to convince them your show can last a full series), however vague. Sketch main characters, background characters, and write their traits. Treat them like real people to whom your audience may connect. Develop the world, the sights, sounds, and feelings involved. If you're pitching in the US, they often want catch-phrases to put on T-shirts (you may want to skip this step). Once you have your world, stories, and inhabitants, sit on it. Allow your creation to evolve in this portfolio for a couple years, really fine-tune your ideas. Just when you think you're ready to pitch your work, review its evolution. Really get a sense for how it has changed, then you need to detach from it. When you arrange for a pitch meeting (preferably through an agent, most networks don't accept cold-calls and unsolicited pitches), you need to be willing to compromise. Draw a line and decide how much you're willing to change to get the show made, then accept the suggestions from your review board and make appropriate changes. Don't argue at the meeting, it comes across as threatening. If you don't want to accept one of their suggestions, just ignore it. If and when you pitch again, you'll have a slightly more refined product, at least from the network's perspective.

I don't want to give you more specific advice out of fear you will attempt to pitch too soon. I can't stress enough that you must prepare first. Make a name for yourself, make short films for festivals or participate in high-profile collaborations and events. Keep working until you've established yourself as a professional, then try to pitch. It never hurts to work with the network to which you intend to pitch. Just make sure you have a good reputation for being easy to work with. The same rules apply for independent work, you're just pitching to sponsors instead of a network.

With that out of the way, I'd like to help you get started. Could you post some work samples so we can review them and give advice? Also, really think about the most enjoyable part of the process for you. Figure out where you want to fit in and I'm sure someone on this forum has experience in that field. Last, but not least, don't ever be afraid to ask questions. Except for some circles in LA, you'll find we're a pretty helpful bunch.

[Cloakndagger]

Firstly, thank you Mr Veidt. I won't be pitching any time soon. My goal at the moment is to be in the industry at any level that will help me further my goal of an eventual production. I certainly won't jump the gun on a proposal without earning my dues first. Right now between these forums and the book I'm reading, I want to gather as much information and insight as I can before I leap. I think I'm afraid to commit to something before I know if it will help me in my end goal, but I suppose anything industry related at this point would be beneficial.

I did want to note that I have a large project folder I've created pertaining to everything related to my story. Plot scenarios, area descriptions, characters, histories, personality traits, what I'm aiming to do in each scenario, and artwork to go along with it. It's a constant work in progress of course, but when I'm finished I will have a concrete realization of my story, themes, and episodes.

With that out of the way, I'd like to help you get started. Could you post some work samples so we can review them and give advice? Also, really think about the most enjoyable part of the process for you. Figure out where you want to fit in and I'm sure someone on this forum has experience in that field. Last, but not least, don't ever be afraid to ask questions. Except for some circles in LA, you'll find we're a pretty helpful bunch.

When you mean work examples, do you mean anything specific? I recently got a tablet a few months ago and finished my first real animation project (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9vodyDOKNI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), but beyond that I just have a few character sketches, a few colored. I loathed the scanning/cleaning system of old and never saved any of my old work under the realization that the more I drew, the better I got, and I didn't like having old pieces that I would now feel were an outdated representation of my skill. In short, I'm building my portfolio from the ground up, but at the moment I'm gathering information to understand what is needed in a portfolio, and what skills I need to practice and hone to be at the professional level. The book I'm reading, Your Career In Animation by David Levy has so far been the nuts and bolts of what I've been looking for in terms of information. It's laid out the various jobs in the industry, what expectations and talents they have, and what their portfolios should look like, along with interviews with specialists in those fields.

[v.veidt]

First, let me tell you that you've picked up a good book for insight on the industry. It's becoming outdated, but David Levy knows his stuff.

When I say work samples, I don't expect animation. You're obviously just starting out, so you can't have much to display. I would, however, like to see your drawing level. Why don't you post something that you feel represents your abilities at this moment. Don't worry about feeling embarrassed, we're here to help.

I'll go ahead and preemptively tell you to enrol in a life drawing course as soon as possible. Even if you're far beyond the level I expect, more life drawing can only improve your existing skills.

Once I can ascertain your drawing level, I'll think of a challenge to push you beyond some of the beginner mistakes in the video you linked.

Cheers.

[Cloakndagger]

The human figure is my biggest hole. I've never taken anatomy courses or any official art courses, so I understand I'll need to hit that hard. I'm devoting at least an hour a day to studying, tracing, copying, and watching the human figure to get started. If you hold on for an hour I'll sketch up a few things and post them along with some other finished works I've done to show you my skill level.

[idragosani]

Just to add to the discussion, our very own "lame lemec" posted some videos today on getting into the art industry:

http://youtu.be/pFf8Du7dQLs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Cloakndagger]

Okay, looking through my computer I did find a decent cache of things I've done recently:

Sketches for friends and laughs:

















Two panels for a friend's comic idea:





Some colored work:







Those pieces and my animation are the majority of work I've done since getting my Cintiq a few months ago.

[Cloakndagger]

Just to add to the discussion, our very own "lame lemec" posted some videos today on getting into the art industry:

http://youtu.be/pFf8Du7dQLs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh, man. I'm loving these videos. This guy is really inspiration and shares my loathing for corporate America. I realize my thoughts are tectonic and shifting around, but his videos are having me consider going freelance. I can teach myself, I know it. Back to the videos.

[idragosani]

His experiences in commercial visual effects are very similar to my own commercial software development... I imagine this kind of thing is universal, as shown in the movie "Office Space"... that is exactly what my day job is like (except I don't have to wear a tie)