TVPaint Animation 10.0 Feedback

[Paul Fierlinger]

Or a pink member with a blue head -- in either case, something to draw with, one of which is digital.

[kariP]

I have a single tiff image I want to save over the old version.
But, while my file requester is set to system, tvp doesn't ask for any confirmation about overwriting. Though the never confirm is checked off.
When the file requester is set to tvp 10, then it works.
Bug? Or did I miss something?
I'm on a mac 10.6.8.

-Kari

[papparaffie]

Am I correct in assuming that the compression slider only has effect when the MJPEG option is selected when exporting the native AVI? When choosing any of the other options (RGB, YUV, RGBA) there is no change in quality or file size.

By the way a great file format this native AVI. Works great, plays really smooth when used in Premiere Pro, Combustion and AfterFX even with alpha! (though a bit large)

[ematecki]

Yes, compression only affects MJPEG, all other formats are 100% non-compressed.

[Elodie]

By the way a great file format this native AVI. Works great, plays really smooth when used in Premiere Pro, Combustion and AfterFX even with alpha! (though a bit large)

Thanks for your compliments ! =)

[idragosani]

The AVI files also load perfectly well into kdenlive (Linux video editor) and Vimeo also accepts them without complaint.

[hilary]

UGH! Sorry I may have missed some codec info in this thread (I have read it) but despite the greatness of the new TVP (looks fab and I love the markers)No Quick Time! Jeez. So I have tried the AVI options but can't seem to get a codec that gives me decent quality without ballooning the file size. My usual codec with QT was the Animation at medium giving me a decent sized file(32MB)with a B and W line test. Now the same animation with the MPEG compressor is 249 MB - on Direct Show. The regular AVI at 50% is 1.2 gigs. Any codec ideas? Am I being limited by my video card? I guess I could open these files on 9.5 and export them to QTS there...Oh and the 'configure' tab on the AVI Direct Show options doesn't seem to bring anything up?

[Paul Fierlinger]

Oh and the 'configure' tab on the AVI Direct Show options doesn't seem to bring anything up?

Have you clicked on the icon of the cog wheel? {EDIT: and then in tje Video Codec window?]There should be a bunch of codecs there, all depending on what you have in your computer though. I've been using Uncompressed RGB 24 or 32 ever since Moses with no problems but you don't tell us the size of your project.

I draw at 1080p but export avi's at 720p because it causes less problems in my NLE. This is still HD uncompressed, mind you and my average weight of the avi's come to between 50MB to 1.5GB (for a very long pan) and these are final avi's in color. I think these figures should be considered normal when dealing with uncompressed files -- but why not?

[ematecki]

No Quick Time! Jeez. :shock:

Are you using the 64bits version ?
If so, you just have to get used to not having QT anymore, Apple decided to not make QT available for 64bits apps...
So, in the long run, as all the software migrate to 64bits, QT will disappear, and nobody but Apple can change that.

If you are using the 32bits version, QT should still be there.

[hilary]

Hi Paul -
Thanks for the reply - yes I am using the 64 BIT version - I read the blog that Fabrice posted about this issue. Can't import QTS into TVP10 obviously either which is a drag - still that's another issue. With regards to the AVI compression my TVP files are between 50 and 200 MBS each. Mostly B and W at this stage as I am doing rough animation. I usually bring my rendered exports into AE CS4.
Been playing with AVI codecs in AE too with miserable results. I have attached a jpeg of the configure tab I was talking about...Why did Apple do this?

[hilary]

Oh and I am working at 1920 X 1080 - what do you mean by NLE Paul? I like to stay at that size as I am working with 3Dimg sequence exports so I crunch the size in half at the final 'review export' (that is 960 X540) If that makes sense. My main issue is for the same TVP project the QT Animation codec gave me a good quality file export at 32MB while the AVI was 1.2 gigs. I need to find a decent working codec solution as my film is over 15 mins long

[Paul Fierlinger]

Your other codecs should show up in the Video Codec window. The reason the Configure window remains blank is that there is nothing to configure when you are exporting non compressed files. Try some of the other codecs and you will see that some information will show up under Configure> But having said that, with all the other codecs I have available to me, and some of which I have even paid for, my favorite still remains the one you are using. You should use the 32 version only if you really have to (usually if you are exporting a clip with an alpha channel). If this is not the case, use the 24 version, which uses less memory. Another thing I would question is your need to export pencil tests as big as 1080p.

I draw everything in that size too because it gives me more latitude for camera moves, but I always convert to 720p on export. I have a healthy size computer because my films tend to be long and I also edit in the same computer, keeping both TVP and the editing program (Vegas Pro 11) open at all times. This computer is custom built by an experienced IT who does this for a living. Yet 1080 will not run at real time speed -- it is just too big.

There is also no need to have not only your pencil tests at this size but even the final product unless you plan to convert your film to 35 mm film. Even in such a case (a feature film for theatrical release) I stayed with 720p all the way to the point of delivery to the filmout lab, when I replaced my 720p files with the 1080p ones. I once made a professional lab test comparison between the two files and the difference for all practical purposes is nonexistent because our frames are flat 2D images.

To say it simply, you are overtaxing your hard drives and your entire computer with unnecessary, oversized AVI files. BTW, I rarely ever had a need for QT from the very beginning; basically I had it available to me only when a client specifically asked for it. But with an NLE such as Vegas Pro, I don't even need QT for that since there are other ways to export H 264 files.

So set your export panel to Uncompressed BGR 24 and and convert your files to HDTV 720 and you should do fine. If you are getting poor quality images, check out the settings of your video(graphics) card. TVP is not the culprit, to that I can safely attest from experience.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Hi Hilary,
I have some good news. Some time ago I bought a fabled codec, called CineForm by Neocene for about $200 and it turned out to be a disappointment because it soon started crashing both TVP and Vegas. Now there has been an update so I gave it a second try because I remembered liking the results a lot. It has indeed been fixed.

This codec condenses AVIs in some special way that the files look even better than uncompressed -- the quality of colors is fabulous and beloved by many filmmakers, but here is the best part: a clip rendered (exported) from TVP's Uncompressed codec that uses 836 MB, takes up only 57 MB when compressed by GoPro-CineForm Codec. They also have a promotional GoPro codec for free. It's worth the try and maybe the free version will be all you need.

[hilary]

Hi Paul-
Thanks for taking the time to give me such informative feedback. Its most appreciated Doah! should have thought that configure through....Yes that does make total sense to go to 720p on export and has reduced the size. My clients always want a QT with an animation codec (1080p) and that has been the viewing default for the schools I have taught at so I guess that where my dependency has stemmed from. So the quality was good on the uncompressed BGR24 but even at 720p I still went for a very good quality QT (1080p) at 35MB to a good quality AVI (720p) at 415MB. Thats a big file size difference. I us AE for my compositing and rough shot assembly - again habit- having attended Fabrice's seminar on TVP 10 I am not utilizing TVP as much as I could - and I am sure this would improve my work flow. Still my rendered QTS have always played realtime and haven't been a problem. But I am going to check out that codec thanks again for your help!
Hilary

[hilary]

Hey Paul -
Ok one last (and probably very silly question) I downloaded the free GoProCineform Codec with great results. Comparing the render to a QT with a med compression animation CODEC (staying at 1080p) there is a slight quality difference but the QT was 160mB and AVI with with the GoPro codec was 43MB! Pretty great -its best quality for size yet. But I had to do the render from AE using a targa sequences because I didn't see the codec listed anywhere in TVP - does TVP10 recognize the GoPro codec?
Thanks Hilary