auto-save function

[slowtiger]

I save manually every few seconds in every program. No big deal.

[idragosani]

One of the audio workstation apps I use (an open source one, too!) has a method where *session* state is saved separately from automated backups, so when certain things change in the session (new tracks, recordings are completed, etc), that is automatically saved. In the event of a crash, when the software is restarted, it will compare that saved state against the latest saved version (safety backup or explicitly saved version), and if there are differences, it will alert the user that there is unsaved data from the crash and would you like to recover it? Of course, certain things like config or plugin settings and things like that might be lost, but the actual important stuff is still preserved. Would something analogous in TVPaint be possible? When new layers are added, for instance, or new instances are created? That way, the saving is based on a change in state rather than just randomly saving that could interfere with rendering an FX stack or something (of course after the render to a new layer is done, boom, state change, save it!). Even a partial recovery after a crash is better than losing an entire project because of corrupted data, or... heheheh... forgetfulness

Nonetheless, getting in the habit of saving early and saving often is a good idea, regardless of any automated backup strategy. A key combo can accomplish that. I am used to saving with my left hand even when using something like emacs -- pretty much automatic -- and the workflow is similar when I have the stylus in one hand and keyboard in left hand. Draw draw draw save draw draw draw save...

[Soom]

...Would something analogous in TVPaint be possible? When new layers are added, for instance, or new instances are created? ...

Actually, as far as I know, TVPaint itself works like this - I've noticed, that saving a new file is slower, than saving a file after just a few changes. also we work with a software, that actually can analyze TVP file and update other files over network only with new changes without copying the whole file. Fix me if I'm wrong - I'm not a programmer, but I believe it can work.

[Lukas]

I would still love an autosave function in TVPaint. The "Save Alarm" is...well, stupid. A snooze button, really?

Just give us an auto-save function. All the people who are going to complain about a little saving bar popping up while drawing can just turn it off. All the people who don't care, will never have to fear for losing work again.

TVPaint should offer an auto-save function for the money it is charging. This is 2013, kitchen alarm clocks are NOT.

[Paul Fierlinger]

This is 2013, kitchen alarm clocks are NOT.

Ooops. Hand drawing must then be out as well. I better switch to 3D soon.

[Sewie]

Perhaps a more subtle way of showing that the project hasn't been saved, like the name of the project in the Project window turning red?
Some programs, like After Effects, have an asterisk (*) appearing after the project's name as soon at has been altered, mostly I find that clear enough as well.

Because I can imagine that this popping up all the time can get quite annoying after a while.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Perhaps, although I would miss the red sign every time since it'll be on a monitor far away from my point of focus. Snooze might be called Wait, to make it less anachronistic, but its functionality makes sense to me, and perhaps the annoying popup becomes annoying because you are not saving often enough; there's a simple work around: save more often. After all, isn't this what we want?

[Sewie]

Yes, but sometimes I might choose not to save. I have quite a strict 'save' regime when I am working, saving many versions of a single project.
But sometimes I want to try something quickly and if it doesn't work I'll go back with 'undo' and then save. If this pop-up appears around that time, it's annoying.

I tried to use this option with the test-version of 10.5 and though I appreciated the reminder I found the popping-up all the time a bit obtrusive.

And trying longer intervals between the pop-ups felt a bit like defeating the purpose of this option. So I am not sure if I will use this option eventually or how...

[mox]

What the fuss about the save alarm pop up?
You don't want it, turn it off in the preferences. Period.

Keep calm and TVPaint!

[Sewie]

I believe that the point of this thread is finding out if there are other or better options.

But I could be wrong.

[Lukas]

I believe that the point of this thread is finding out if there are other or better options.

But I could be wrong.

I was thinking the same.

My previous post had a bit harsh tone. My only intention was to make sure the call for a true auto-save/recovery system was still heard.

I was a bit let down because many people often asked for auto-save, and we get an alarm for manual (not automatic!) saving.

Many applications automaticly make save files every few minutesin the background in a certain folder hidden somewhere (with a maximum of f.e. 10 files or 10 GB). You'd still manage your files yourself like you do now. But if somerhing ever goes wrong, like a crash or a power failure. You can always go to that hidden folder and open one of the latest files and continue.

(Stuff like this has been around long before 2013, just like alarm clocks and hand drawn animation...but it definately is a better solution for lost work than alarm clocks)

[mox]

I believe that the point of this thread is finding out if there are other or better options.

But I could be wrong.

I was thinking the same.

I did write the post after reading your words Lukas, so I might ask you the same thing.
Even if TVPaint team is reading everything, don't forget there are not 10 developers ready to add new features on the fly and upon request

[Lukas]

I realise that. But also note that the first post in this thread is very old.

And coding an alarm also cost resources, which could have been better spend if you ask me, especially because it's a bad solution to a serious problem. I am just trying to give feedback. I want TVP to become better, I am not writimg these posts for fun. My tone might not always be the friendliest, but I always try to explain myself with proper arguments.

[Sewie]

I might be suggesting something uninsightful here, since I am no programmer, but;

Seeing that all modern cpu's are quad-core (or more cores), wouldn't it be possible to have a single (or double) core temporarily do the auto-save in the background when the user is working on his/her project in a way that won't take too many resources away from the user? On a 10gig file that would still take a while, but 10 gigs for a single TVP file is an exception, I believe. The biggest I have yet worked with are about 500Mb max. Perhaps a progress bar, somewhere out of the way, not popping up in the middle of the screen, could alert the user that an auto save is in progress?

And if the user were able to specify which folder or disk to use for the auto-save files, he/she could point the software to an SSD for the really big files, speeding the process up a bit. I don't think that the professional user would mind the extra investment in exchange for the safety of an auto backup since they don't cost a fortune anymore.

[Elodie]

My previous post had a bit harsh tone. My only intention was to make sure the call for a true auto-save/recovery system was still heard.

Oh yes, it has been heard. But with such a harsh tone, people are not really keen to please you.
Yes, yes, I know : you are the user and the customer / we are the developers and the sellers, so we must please you.

Anyway, we are still human. We do our best to please EVERYBODY, even if it's just impossible.
So, we are never enthusiast when we read things such as :

The "Save Alarm" is...well, stupid.

Thank you, we like to read how stupid we are.

We adore the forum because it is an excellent place to chat and propose ideas. But don't forget there are humans behind the computers.
Keep the content, just change the form

And coding an alarm also cost resources,

Less resources than an auto-save option.

But sometimes I want to try something quickly and if it doesn't work I'll go back with 'undo' and then save. If this pop-up appears around that time, it's annoying.

This pop-up appears only if you don't do anything during several seconds (once the limited time is over, of course), in order to avoid the case where "you draw and animate and PAF ! a pop-up". No, no, it waits that you do nothing during few seconds.
But, there is something I don't get : you complain about that pop-up, but what if the auto-save was working ? It would save automatically and you would lose the original part of your work.

Everybody complains about how intrusive programs are nowadays. We try to do our best to avoid this intrusive side in TVPaint and always keep the user "master" of what (s)he does. Like saving, because it can be long, it can cause crashes, and it can save something that you didn't want to save (like : your test "just to see").