Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format

[Fabrice]

Yea, there was this warning. A good idea by the way. But maybe you could add the checkerboard-background to the preview of NOT PREMULTIPLIED. I guess a lot of people get confused like me if some option has this transparency-checkerboard and the other option hasn't it, but would be the right choice.

it makes sense, indeed.

[ematecki]

Often images get corrupted or get lost completely after an export/render. The failure factor is just naturally higher if you work with hundreds of files, than only with one video file.

This looks much more like a hardware problem !

[D.T. Nethery]

Unfortunately AVI isn't a format which you can expect much support for on an computer running OSX, as far as I know.

Indeed , if you want to be able to quickly and easily play a .AVI file forwards and backwards at full speed , in looped mode (and save it as a looped/cycled action) , or step through the movie frame-by-frame accurately with the arrow keys (forwards and backwards) then you must use Quicktime PRO 7.6 on OSX .

Sometimes VLC is mentioned as an alternative . VLC will play a .AVI on OSX , but it does not have the same behaviors as Quicktime , so to me VLC is not a viable replacement for Quicktime PRO . VLC for OSX also has the annoying behavior of playing through a .AVI once and then it closes the file and to view it again it must be re-opened . (is this a BUG in VLC for OSX ? I have never inquired with the developers of VLC on their forum because honestly I don't use it much because it is so inferior to Quicktime PRO for viewing animation) I have also noticed that with VLC on OSX it is not possible to re-size a .AVI to fit the screen or to make it half-size , so if someone submits a very large .AVI (resolution 2048 x 1556 or something like that ) which does not fit the resolution of my Macbook screen then I have no way to view it in VLC because the damned VLC won't let me resize the .AVI . So in practical terms VLC is not good for viewing .AVI files on OSX . (interestingly , the same problems do not occur when viewing Quicktime .MOV files using VLC. When I open a .MOV file in VLC it allows me to resize the movie and it does not close the .mov file after playing it through one time , so I do think the problem with .AVI files in VLC for OSX must be a bug. )

[Fabrice]

Thanks for the constructive input David. I will check this.
Maybe the way the .avi is created does change something when played in Quicktime. We need to do further tests.

[D.T. Nethery]

Thanks for the constructive input David. I will check this.
Maybe the way the .avi is created does change something when played in Quicktime. We need to do further tests.

Just to clarify: I've found that the .AVI files created by TVPaint's internal .AVI export engine play perfectly in Quicktime PRO 7.6 . No problem there. But not so good in VLC . (so VLC is not currently a viable replacement for Quicktime PRO for us MAC OSX people, as is sometimes suggested) I think it is a VLC (OSX version) problem handling .AVI files on Mac OSX, not a TVPaint problem.

The point being that despite the talk about "Quicktime is dead, so it's best that you Mac OS people just let it go and be done with it" , in practical terms Quicktime PRO is still the best player/editor for quickly and easily using .MOV, .MP4 , and .AVI files on a Mac.

[Elodie]

Quicktime PRO is still the best player/editor for quickly and easily using .MOV, .MP4 , and .AVI files on a Mac.

This is Apple's paradox

[Mads Juul]

I have shared my solution on this topic here http://forum.tvpaint.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8254
Maybe others can use it. I have only tested the scripts on windows so I don't think it works out of the box on Mac.
Kind Regards Mads

[artfx]

My worry with the demise of Quicktime is more about file sizes. Apple has a great codec, called the Apple Intermediate Codec. While being compressed as far as file size, I have yet to throw anything at it that is noticeably compressed. This format is made for editing. While MP4 works for most needs, it is not ideal for something that is not final. That is to say, it is great for exporting a clip to show to someone or even to release as the final downloadable product, but it is not something you want to take into an editor, add FX to, cut, warp and play with. You can, but the compression artifacts from such will almost surely be noticeable.

I am currently using QT 7 PRO, but my Mac is from 2010. Should I ever buy a new one, I have no idea what I will use. I have no idea what I will export from TVP. Maybe in that day, hard drive space will be so cheap that I won't care about the file size of the internal AVI codec, but right now they are bit too big for me. Also, has anyone tested wether Final Cut will load the internal AVI or it does have to be converted into something else for editing on the MAC?

[Paul Fierlinger]

Terrence, your first paragraph rings absolutely true to me and I work by it. But everything in your second paragraph has moved by this point to the realm of my NLE, and TVP has little or nothing to do with that process. Should it be expected of TVPaint to follow the product through to the end and assume the responsibility of its quality? I don't know.

I view TVPaint as my product source. This is where the imagery is produced at current technology's height -- or reasonably close to that (there's always catch up development going on). But what happens further with the product is a matter of it's distribution in my view, and I look to Vegas to give me the means of highest quality for TV, movie house or online distribution (and of course there is then this endless debate whether Vegas is the most capable NLE for the job or not, and if not, who, what and where is the best. )

[slowtiger]

Maybe in that day, hard drive space will be so cheap that I won't care about the file size of the internal AVI codec, but right now they are bit too big for me.

I just counceled someone who was completely surprised that his 70 min HDTV movie couldn't get rendered on his machine and drive. Had to break it down to him like this:

1 frame in HDTV = 6,3 MB
1 second = 157,5 MB.
1 minute = 9,45 GB
1 hour = 567 GB
(70 min = 661,5 GB)

These numbers will give you a rough estimate about uncompressd file sizes. Drives are cheap now, I can get 4 TB (!) for about 150.- € here.

My films are usually quite short, but clients often ask for a high quality file like Uncompressed 8bit 4:2:2. So you need to be prepared for big file sizes anyway.

[Paul Fierlinger]

And this may be the best thing the cloud has to offer, because the size of our hardware is becoming somewhat unwieldy (our house never gets cold anymore). If someone will object to this, saying that you can't trust the cloud (and I don't, to an absolute extent) then how can you trust your big hardware drives? What if they break -- as everything will. In the end, the product is a compressed version of all those pristine megabytes, so to protect myself yet in another way, I keep creating updated versions of my WIP as if it were to be the final product, and those "final delivery" versions will fit on a pocket drive. Silly, isn't it?

[schwarzgrau]

I second what artfx said. The ProRes 422 codec is extremely useful. The file size is really small and you can barely find some artifacts, if you choose the 4:2:2 version it's impossible.
It's really a great codec, if you still need to use the video in another application. Even if you like to color grade the footage. Unfortunately it remains to be seen, what Apple will do with this codec.
I tried to import the TVPaint internal AVI in After Effects and Premiere ( I don't own a copy of Final Cut ) and it worked flawlessly. I could open it in Quicktime7 and that's always a good sign, since the other applications all use the Quicktime Framework to import Video, as far as I know.
But I've a lot of codecs installed, so maybe you need to try it yourself anyways.