My general experience with TVPaint

[Henk Beumers]

My God people, are you for real?
I spend more than a hour reading this whole post and I can't believe my eyes. Nothing came out of it. You're like hardheaded donkies. You're just not listening to each other.
Yes there is a lot to wish for and no it is not possible to serve you in one day.
And Patrick, even if you're right seen from a certain perspective, you should be ashamed to act like a spoiled kid in this post without even consider the possibility that not the whole world does agree with you. In this post and in previous ones several people tried to sincerely help you because they are experienced users and they feel obligated to respond. They not try to hold on to the past. Maybe you're young but the only one who is acting like a dinosaur here is you. Think about that.
Now please shut this post because it's getting ridiculous.

Greetings Henk.

[Sewie]

Yeah..., that's exactly the condescending tone I was talking about one post before.

[schwarzgrau]

Thank you Sewie. Your previous post made you already to one of my personal forum-favourites, but this one topped it.
And thank you too Peter. It's really nice to read some posts without this YOU against US attitude.

Henk I don't want to sound like the host of pre-school TV show, but to me it feels like something came out of it. Trumpatrick told the forum, how he feels posting here and what the people get out of it is their choice. I feel a bit similar and some friends of mine didn't even considering posting anything, after reading some discussions. And it's not about getting served in one day. Trumpatrick didn't posted here, cause some feature didn't get implemented in a while.

I know it's hard to make a really honest statement and being respectful at the same time, but please try it.

[Trumpatrick]

Henk, you really missed the point. My post is not about being dissapointed not getting requests implemented quickly. And also, I did consider that I might be the only one feeling frustrated with the program, I litteraly said so somewhere in this thread.

[alfatoons]

Wow!?

[momo]

Just trying to make this debat useful because I had a similar conversation with a friend of mine, while debating on which platform to animate a tv show.

My friend's complains were sounding a lot like what I read in this thread. Basically he was not happy on with the big difficulty of learning the software and it's capabilities.

I think that the biggest problem people have with TVpaint are: the User Interface and naming convention for things in TVpaint. In a world with complex 3D software it is safe to say the need for a very clear terminology is fundamental in order to not turn down the new users.

Here are a few exemple of things that could be simplified:

"windows and Custom panels"
Could be under the same menu to make it a little more simple.

"main panel"
This doesnt tell the new user what he will find in there. Could be called "line style panel" or "drawing style panel" or anything that implies the realtionship between the "main panel" and the "tool panel". This is also a very unique working method of TVpaint so it could be called something unique and could be visually clearer. Or maybe the "tool panel" and "main panel" could be one panel.

"menu panel"
Could be called "menu bar" or "icon bar" it is confusing that we are seeing a bar but is a called a panel because we can move it on the side. Meanwhile the other panel cannot be placed as a bar. At this point in a beginner doesnt know what panel means anymore. Also maybe more icons could be placed on the bar or maybe it could be customizable?

"Toolbin5"
Could be called "custom panel" or "custom brush panel" or "something panel". But using the word "bin" is confusing because it relates to a very unique feature of TVpaint "the Bin" unique feature calls for unique name.

"stencil"
I know this is the technically correct word to describe a mask but a new user would be less confused if he saw the word "mask". The rest the world use the word mask for this option. Also it is very motivating when you start using a software and immediately you already know something about it because you used other software.

"bin"
Is used again in the palette panel which for the same reason is confusing. There are 3 places where the word Bin is used but each time it is a little bit different so a beginner will have to learn 3 different things attached to one single word. Could be called "swatches".

"faux fix"
Could be called "post-behavior" or anything that explains that this is how you control the behavior after the last instance is reached.

The little black triangles are everywhere
In some case it indicates a dropdown menu and in some case it collapse the panel. Two functions for the same visual symbol is confusing to the new user (not to mention the play button is exactly the same style of triangle and the hide the timeline button). Maybe using the standard flat line would be much clearer. Or they could all be different triangles so visually we know they do not do the same thing.

project panel
This is currently under "view" --> "new zoom window" A window easier to find if it was under "window". "zoom window" why not simply "project panel"?

window menu
The submenu "tool" could be renamed "panels" as most of the things that it contains are "panels" and not tools.

Show clip notes, show clip sound under window-->tools could be under "the view " menu

"keymap"
Under the option to save the keyboard shortcuts could be called "save the shortcuts" thing would be it really clear for the beginner. Maybe you could even include default "photoshop" and "flash" short cut for people who are coming from those softwares.

It is a shame to turn off potential new users because of things like that. I can imagine this must be complicated since everything is probably designed in french and then a translation has to be found. In most OS I can navigate even if the language is not one that I master because everything has an icon attached to it. Visually it is easy to remember what things are and do when drawings are everywhere.

[schwarzgrau]

Excellent suggestions. Thank you for taking the time to plan these.
The keymap from Flash oder Photoshop could be a bit difficult, since the functions are always a bit different. But it would be great if the keymap could be a bit more like in nearly every other programm (not only Adobe Software)

[momo]

Well I hope the developper see this previous post.


Another thing I might add about shortcuts in general in TVpaint is the unification of the same function to one shortcut. Shorctus overkill I think.

Example:

• To set bookmarks there is one shortcut and then to clear it there is another short....this is too many shortcuts why not just making it the same On/Off. Same goes for the light table. One to make it appear and one to make it disappear. The craziest one I found is the image mark there is a shortcut for every color!!! That's insane there are more shortcuts needed then keys available... for my 5 fingers

There I created a post for feature change for the image mark since it is really madness

[schwarzgrau]

You need to look for the toggling command.
? is toggling light-table.
CTRL + SHIFT + UP is toggling a bookmark.
At least in my configuration.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Bookmarks: Toggle
Layer: Light Table Mode
(Without Trumpatrick's permission)

[momo]

Thanks I didnt know that one.

Unfortunately the toggle image mark only adds or remove the color 01.

But then why have a open and close shortcuts available?

This was just another simplification I was suggesting in the shortcut realm.

[Paul Fierlinger]

Personally, I would be happy to participate in a civilized thread on this topic, but I was earlier banned from this one by Trumpatrick, which BTW is a first in the 20 year history of TVPaint.

[momo]

Yes indeed:

Here are the suggestions I made in a new thread

Please do comment!

And if you have time and are willing to help new animators, could you maybe talk a little bit about your animation methods/approach in TVpaint ? This would be great help to beginners like myself and other aswell. Especially those of you, and particularly Paul, who are experienced animators. Cheers!

[Trumpatrick]

Haha, Paul, I didn't ban you, I just kindly asked only to participate without your baby pants on.

[Fabrice]

.
Insults and offenses are counter-effective and have no place in this forum.

It's better to close this topic otherwise we would have no choice but to start moderating and banning.