Some questions about the interface

[alfatoons]

Wow so many post even before my questions?!

"Off course Alfatoons, you may ask a questions here, thats the main purpose of the forum."

Thanks!!
It might be because my first languages is not english that I miss interpretate some replies in here.

First of all I need to seal this in absolute concrete. My overall feeling is that TvPaint is an awesome 2D animation program. And these questions are absolutly not ment to offend anybody!!!!!!
I, myself is mostly into the animation part of the program, but love the fact that Tvpaint has so many great functions. Seems to have endless possibilities.Skys the limit! That is why I invested in it!!!I Also I want to add that I am not a person who has a very strong knowlegde of Pc navigations. I´m mostly a oldschool paper dude.(OLD)- (Sorry)

Sometimes I get this feeling that if the questions asked about TvPaint, is not in the favor of some users in here, there is a lot of negative vibes going on towards the inquiring person.

I remember the first time I open Photoshop and othe windows based programs I was pretty confused about all menues and functions and so forth at first. But it did not take me long to navigate around the program in a way that I was, and is able to used it for professionel use. Thru the years I have been working with many graphic software in connection to my 2D animation career. Some have had a longer learning curve to get use to and some not so much. But overall, user interface has been more or less the same type in all the program. In exsample: Photoshop -Maya- and so forth... I think you would call it "windows standardization".
I have been following TvPaint for a few years. And I have seen the developement. Awesome!!!
But when I decide to try out Tvpaint I was in shock when I open the program and quickly closed it and did not touch it for years. (My own fault!!!) But, finally I invested in the 10.5 pro version.
well ok sorry ... to make a long story short.. Here is a question for the developer:

Is there any particulary reason why the user interface and terms is so different from "windows standardization" ?
Was and is Tvpaint ment mainly for hardcore tecnical users?
Why is the terms in the program so different from "windows standardization"??
Is this diffrence caused by the programming part of the program?
Is it a big programming task to copy the functions for the timeline to the x-sheet, so one can decide wich works best for him/her? If not , why is the xsheet even there there?
Why is the functions of the "alt" and AltGr" shortcut keys not on keys closer to each other if you know what I mean?
And the spacebar?(here on my keyboard) Is it eraser function only and why is it not able to be used as moving the canvas?

I have had many talks with alot of my colleagues "Old school" people and after hearing their opinion I decide I would risk my skin by posting this. First I just thougt I was a moron at Tvpaint but I hear now that I´m not alone. Im sure and I think I know that programming such a great piece of software is a huge task. And it is so easy to ask for things to be done in personal ways. So please bare with me and my ignorance! By "windows standardization" of the program it would hit a broader pallete of users to TvPaint . In my pinion.

Last but not least I truly "again" apologize if I have offended anybody in here by risking my skin asking these questions and if I posted this question in the wrong place.

See I do not even know where to post in the right place!!.

Peace all Tvpaint useres.!!
Kind regards Alfatoons

[Svengali]

Thierry, I'm removing my comment on color schemes from this thread because it now makes absolutely no sense attached here, to Alfatoon's comment, which you moved from the other thread.

Thanks, Sven

[Mads Juul]

Is there any particulary reason why the user interface and terms is so different from "windows standardization" ?

I think this is a valid question Alfotoon, but I recommend you start a new topic with your question. like Davis suggested

Here's an idea: Alfatoons, if you have questions, please start your own thread about them. That would make more sense. Cheers.

I think it is bad forum practice to post a personal question in another users thread.
It is called Thread Hijacking http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... +Hijacking

I also think it is bad forum practice to assume the question is about colorscheme when it isn't and start discussing colorschemes in another users thread. Also Thread Hijacking,

Let's try to keep the topics separated.

So I recommend Alfatoons to copy your last post to a new Topic and we start to discuss your qustions here. And let's keep this thread to Davids initial questions.

Just my thought
Kind Regards Mads

[Thierry]

The topics have been separated

[Thierry]

Is there any particulary reason why the user interface and terms is so different from "windows standardization" ?

Why is the terms in the program so different from "windows standardization"??

Is this diffrence caused by the programming part of the program?

These three questions are tied : we choose to have the same interface on all of the operating systems (Windows, MacOSX, Linux and Android). That's why there is a difference from the "windows standardization" (as there is a difference form the "mac standardization").
We made a lot of improvements for the interface over the years to make it more user-friendly, and will continue to do so.

Was and is Tvpaint ment mainly for hardcore tecnical users?

It wasn't and it still isn't

Is it a big programming task to copy the functions for the timeline to the x-sheet, so one can decide wich works best for him/her? If not , why is the xsheet even there there?

They don't work the same way, so yes, it would be a very big programming task.

Why is the functions of the "alt" and AltGr" shortcut keys not on keys closer to each other if you know what I mean?

And the spacebar?(here on my keyboard) Is it eraser function only and why is it not able to be used as moving the canvas?

You can change the shortcut for the spacebar as you like (edit -> preferences -> shortcuts), but Alt cannot be changed

[alfatoons]

Hey Thierry.
Thank you for the reply!

[alfatoons]

And MAds, I do apologize if I did bad forum practice. It was and is not my intention.

[Paul Fierlinger]

OK, OK, so now please clarify this question, which dragged me into your inappropriate interference:

The question is about how TvPaint, "user interface", has been constructed!

I want to know if I had guessed your ambivalent questioning with my post about how to change the color scheme.

[alfatoons]

"OK, OK, so now please clarify this question, which dragged me into your inappropriate interference:

inappropriate interference???? Ohh my g-d !!.....

[Mads Juul]

And MAds, I do apologize if I did bad forum practice. It was and is not my intention.

No need to apologize. I think asking new questions in an existing thread is something we all do
I just wanted to point out what is the standard good thing to do in forums. and trying to keep the topic of a thread is important but pretty difficult. If you read through this forum you will see the thread have a tendency to wander off (like this topic is doing now because I'm talking about Forum conduit and not your interface question ), and it is both old and new users who do this. anyways...
If you make a new topic it is also more likely you will get a useful response - And you got one now from Thierry .

I want to know if I had guessed your ambivalent questioning with my post about how to change the color scheme.

Hi Paul if you read Alphatoons question in this thread You can see it has nothing todo with the color scheme. So you guessed wrong.
So you interfering with Alphatoons question in Davids original thread has nothing todo with both questions and I would called this "Thread Hijacking Hijacking" . I actually starts to think this is quite funny.
So if we look at this this way your questuíon is also bad Forum practice and calling alfatoons question inappropriate is inappropriate .

But again it is ok bacause this is something we all do all the time. But let's try not to.

and a note to this

Is there any particulary reason why the user interface and terms is so different from "windows standardization" ?

I'm not a programmer. But as far as I know If you choose to make a software to Windows, You can choose to use some build in User interface. this results in the software looks more like other windows software. But as a developer You also looose control over how the software works, and how fast a software works. From the first day I tried TVPaint I was amazed about how fast it works. There is such a quick response between my wacom pen and my screen. of course the faster computers we get this means less and less. Bit 8 year ago It was very important. And today if you run TVPaint on you Android device you can see how fast it is compared to Photoshops app version. So beacuse the interface is not standart we get a faster piece of software. and it is a price I am willing to pay.
There is always room for improvement. And I'm sure the developers will listen and when it fits make the interface more intuite for windows/mac/linux/Android users.

Kind Regards Mads

[ZigOtto]

...

Is there any particulary reason why the user interface and terms is so different from "windows standardization" ?

I'm not a programmer. But as far as I know If you choose to make a software to Windows, You can choose to use some build in User interface. this results in the software looks more like other windows software. But as a developer You also looose control over how the software works, and how fast a software works. From the first day I tried TVPaint I was amazed about how fast it works. There is such a quick response between my wacom pen and my screen. of course the faster computers we get this means less and less. Bit 8 year ago It was very important. And today if you run TVPaint on you Android device you can see how fast it is compared to Photoshops app version. So beacuse the interface is not standart we get a faster piece of software. and it is a price I am willing to pay.
There is always room for improvement. And I'm sure the developers will listen and when it fits make the interface more intuite for windows/mac/linux/Android users.

Kind Regards Mads

also, I think a part of the answer of this question come from TVP's roots (in the heighties) :
its very first developpement were on AMIGA OS, when the first 24bit display hardware have arisen on the market
(Harlequin, Retina, Rainbow3, Picasso, ...), f.i., the RMB-clic pop-up of menu for getting sub-features or new options
is a typical Amiga's thing, erasing with the RMB was another one.
in this early period, TVPaint were only a 24bit Paint software, then a long and constant evolution have made it ... what it is know,
a solid raster Animation software, the UI of course have considerably changed all along this evolution (30 years ...),
but have kept here and there some character traits from it's Amiga origin, it's probably why some veterans (like me) feel comfortable
with it, in contrary with recent newcomers (coming mainly from Apple/Adobe univers)who feel it so "strange", and are quickly irritated
by it's "out-of-Adobe-format" approach.
it smells like "the little village resisting to the giant invader" story,
why to resist when it's so easy to submit to the stronger and to get into line ?

that said, the gap between our tvpa standards and "the Other Big 0ne" (photoshop & co) tend to get thiner and lighter with the years,
so be patient, no doubt one day, you'll be fully happy to see no difference at all ... in the next 30 years ?

Globalisation is on the road, and people seems to like its "unique formatting" effect ...

[alfatoons]

thumbs.jpg

[Sewie]

I wanted to react to this:

...in contrary with recent newcomers (coming mainly from Apple/Adobe univers)who feel it so "strange", and are quickly irritated
by it's "out-of-Adobe-format" approach.
it smells like "the little village resisting to the giant invader" story,
why to resist when it's so easy to submit to the stronger and to get into line ?

I find this metaphor a bit condescending to all the users who have, over the years, tried to make an argument for cross-software conformality. You have to understand that there are many of us who work with this software under tight deadlines and a lot of pressure to get a certain quota delivered on time. We have absolutely no interest in making love to the software. We are trying to achieve something with it.

That doesn't mean that we don't appreciate the software for what it is and what it can do, I still stand by my opinion that TVP is high quality software, giving us a lot more options than paper drawn animation, or many other software packages, ever can. But in my opinion there are many things that can still be approved. I suppose there always will be.

These sycophantic post about how great this software is and new users shouldn't be so 'childish' or 'impatient' are starting to get to me. If the veterans want some understanding for why TVP is what it is at this time, at the very least try to comprehend where the wishes and request of novice users are coming from!

[alfatoons]

Sewie wrote.

We have absolutely no interest in making love to the software. We are trying to achieve something with it.

Agree 1000%

[Sewie]

And yet I am not looking to further polarize this discussion.

Alphatoons, I would like ask you to be more specific about where your difficulties lie in using the software. Are there certain tools or shortcuts you don't understand?

There are often many solutions that can be suggested. Hopefully we can then move away from the philosophical to a more practical approach to getting what you want to achieve.