MPC

[David_Fine]

I’ve got my head around using the multi plane FX to create, for instance, a zoom in with panning cels to create depth. Very nice, but still, some questions.

After creating a move and rendering it, the FX panel is then cleared. So if I want to adjust the rendered move and do it again, all the info about what I did is gone. Using Undo does not go back to before it was rendered. How do I get that back so that I can try again and render again and so forth? Do I have to save the move before I render? If so, how do I save it? There is a Bin menu button and a FXBin menu button. In both, you can Export. Is that how you save a move and if so, which one to use? If not, how do you save a multi plane move so that it can be reloaded and adjusted?

Also, once the move is done, I may have zoomed in on a layer. How do I figure out the resolution I need to draw that layer so that it is still good at it’s zoomed in size? Do I just guess, or is there some way of TVPaint telling me?

[Animark]

Hello,

normally, after rendering one or more FX (e.g. a keyframer, a multiplane, ...) the FX-Stack should stay like before and just its preview should be disabled. When the whole stack is cleared, there must be something totally wrong. Are you really sure with this? Could you give a before and after screenshot?

Also normally your FX stack is saved inside your project and should be there also after closing and reopening a project. And yes, you can save your FX using the bin menue. I only use this, when I want to keep different FX settings in one project or when I want to use the FX on another project.

[ZigOtto]

... After creating a move and rendering it, the FX panel is then cleared. So if I want to adjust the rendered move and do it again, all the info about what I did is gone.

something's wrong here, the FX panel should stay with all their FXs and settings, only the preview gadget should be disabled,

... how do I save it? There is a Bin menu button and a FXBin menu button. In both, you can Export. Is that how you save a move and if so, which one to use?

tvpa-MP-FXbin.png (6.89 KiB) Viewed 26201 times

FXbin/export ... will save the corresponding FX in its own file, a xxxx.bin file saved where you want on your HD (file path indicated in the export panel),
you can save it by FXbin/Add as well, but here, the FXbin will be stored in the tvpa config file, so you will be able to get it back the next time you will launch TVPA.

Bin/export ... will save all the FX stack (multiple FXs in one xxxx.bin file).

... Also, once the move is done, I may have zoomed in on a layer. How do I figure out the resolution I need to draw that layer so that it is still good at it’s zoomed in size? Do I just guess, or is there some way of TVPaint telling me?

not exactly to guess, but to calculate (roughly estimate) it, (unfortunately, afaik, tvpa don't tell us the factor to enlarge the working project),
in the stage below f.i., at its max. zoomed step, the camera-field/background ratio is around 2.5, so the project size should be about 2.5x larger than the output size,
in the same way, the overlay* (panning) layer's length should be long enough regarding the panning length you will apply.
(* the blue one in my example, imported in the MultiPlane_FX from a secondary open project).

tvpa-MP-SV.png (7.87 KiB) Viewed 26201 times

[David_Fine]

Thanks for the quick responses. Always appreciated.

What I have discovered is that the settings in the FX panel disappear after I close the panel. So what happens is that I render the multi plane, then I close the big FX panel to make more screen space to review and then I go and open the FX panel again and it is blank. If I don't close it, it stays, but if I do close it, when I open it again, all gone. That's really odd to me, but maybe there is another way to get it back, or is it just that you cannot close that panel or you lose your work? That would surprise me.

Also, when I save the project and then open it again, the FX panel is blank again. It did not save it in the project because when I open the project, the FX window is not open and so again, I open it and it's just blank. Do I have to use the FXBin/Add to add it to the project as ZigOtto suggests, or does that save it to the default TVPaint file so that it will be there every time I open TVPaint?

I did try saving the FX using FXBin/Export and it loaded successfully that way, but what I am after is to be able to just keep the move active until I change it or discard it. Losing the move just because the FX window is closed seems very odd and dangerous. Also, using UNDO does not work for redoing a rendered move. It just won't go back. Is it really down to just being careful not to close the FX window? No warning that you will lose your work? (By "work", I mean the work making the multi plane move, or whatever FX).

[ZigOtto]

...
What I have discovered is that the settings in the FX panel disappear after I close the panel. So what happens is that I render the multi plane, then I close the big FX panel to make more screen space to review and then I go and open the FX panel again and it is blank. If I don't close it, it stays, but if I do close it, when I open it again, all gone. That's really odd to me, but maybe there is another way to get it back, or is it just that you cannot close that panel or you lose your work? That would surprise me.
...

no, it isn't normal, as Animark and I told you, you should recover the fx and its settings even after closing and re-opening the FX-stack panel,
what is happening to you is weird, maybe try to open tvpa with a new config, and see if it's still happening .

...
Also, when I save the project and then open it again, the FX panel is blank again ...

if you saved your project once your FX settings have disappeared, it's normal ,
but if you saved it with the FX settings still present in the FX-Stack panel, then again, it's definitively abnormal.
I never crossed this issue (loosing FXs settings) here, either on Win32 or Win64bit.
does it happen to you only with the MultiPlane FX, or also with any other FX ?

btw, what's your tvpa version, and your OS ?

[David_Fine]

Well, then either something very strange is going on, or there is a fundamental mistake with something I am doing. To be clear, I open the multi plane FX panel from the Effects menu in the menu bar at the top, do my multi plane move, apply it and then close the panel. When I open the panel again the exact same way, from the menu, it is blank. No record of the move there at all. You say you can close that panel and then open it again from the menu and you get everything back so that you can adjust the move again?

I tried doing a blur effect. Applied it, closed the panel and opened it and the settings had reset to the default, so that doesn't remember them either.

I am using a Mac with TVPaint version 10.5.7 64 bit.

[ZigOtto]

... You say you can close that panel and then open it again from the menu and you get everything back so that you can adjust the move again?

exactly, and it is the normal behaviour for any tvpa user I know,
apparently, something is going wrong with your app.
have you tried to re-start tvpa with a new config (via the startup panel) ?

[David_Fine]

I have not tried that, but I guess I will and I will report back. I might also try doing a screen grab video to show what I do, if that doesn't solve it. Back soon... Thank you.

[David_Fine]

Okay, so I have made a nifty little movie which demonstrates the issue. In it, you can see exactly what I do. My work around right now is to simply save the move and reload it, but others are saying you should not need to do that. For me, it just disappears, so please have a look at this video and see if that gives you any clue as to why this is happening. Thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z6jkfonb96ez6 ... e.mp4?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ZigOtto]

hi David,
well, after a quick look at your grabbed video (thanks for it), here's the squirrel :
it appears you are in "Simple FX" mode, so when you open a (new) FX, it will replace the previous one (if existing), by the new (empty) one,
you should tick ON the "Multiple FX" mode, (which is the current mode everyone is using so far),
in this mode, you will be able to duplicate your first FX, uncheck the original, and modify the duplicated settings to get a new FX version,
and so to keep all your different FX versions in the same stack.

[Peter Wassink]

After this struggle for David i'd suggest getting rid of that single fx mode.
when would it ever be really usefull?

[Animark]

On Monday I gave a lesson in using the keyframer. There were also two students struggling as I said, they had to make a copy of a one keyframer and they never got two of them. I needed about 5 minutes to find out what went wrong. They accidently activated the "single" mode. Later I've been asked for what is the single mode good for, but could'nt give an answer. If there is no need for it, it should be removed.

[ZigOtto]

After this struggle for David i'd suggest getting rid of that single fx mode.
when would it ever be really usefull?

... If there is no need for it, it should be removed.

few people using parsimoniously FXs are pro "single FX",
Sierra Rose and StopmoNick are some of them,
(see there)

maybe a default "Multi FX" mode,
and switching to the "Single FX" mode will ask for a "warning" confirmation (Yes/No),
to prevent user's accidental change (...?...)

[Animark]

OK, now I can understand why some users like the single FX. It really helps not getting confused. Me (and the more my students when beginning to use the FX stack) often get confused about the fact, that when leaving the current project to another one and coming back, the formerly selected FX in the stack is changed to the topmost FX. This also can be completely confusing - there are sometimes too much things to have an eye on.

[David_Fine]

Wow, so all this issue I was having came down to this quirk in TVPaint about choosing multiple or single FX. Something which it appears many have no clue what the difference is. I certainly don't. I go to do a single effect, and so naturally I would choose "single FX", although it was just set at that anyway. This is one of those things which is counter intuitive and confusing and I hope might be addressed in a future update, as Peter suggests. Thanks to ZigOtto for nailing this. Good thing I did that whole video since no one was able to guess that this could cause the problem. Thanks everyone, for your help. This community forum is great!