Camera move troubles Topic is solved

[David_Fine]

In another thread, I asked about doing multiple camera moves and got a great answer which involves splitting the scene into separate segments, each with one move. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10455" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now I want to do a move which is continuous, not stopping, but goes through a position before getting to the final place. I have a long panning cel and I want to pan left to right and then towards the end, track in tighter on the final section. So a kind of hockey stick shaped move. If I try and do this with the camera, it goes along and then swoops out past the final position and then back again, which is not what I want. I can't control it, but since it is a continuous move, I can't split it into sections, so how do I achieve this very simple and basic move, either using the camera or a keyframe move?

And on a related note, when I have a camera move which goes from A to B to C and A to B is the exact same field, but just a lateral movement from left to right, why does the resultant move not follow that path, but instead, on the way from A to B, zooms back and in again when it should remain static, but for the left to right movement?

[Svengali]

David, this might not answer your specific questions, but maybe you can answer your own questions after reading this through... Here's a GIF demonstrating a simple, three-view move... with pauses...

camera-time&positioncurve.gif (15.52 MiB) Viewed 34276 times

Simple camera move: Three positions - with pauses at each - with ease in & ease out.
1. Establish length of shot (frame count, for instance 100 frames)
2. Activate the camera icon and select Linear Mode - play camera icon should be off.
3. Set first camera view (position, rotation and size)
4. Set last camera view (position, rotation and size)
5. Set middle camera view (position, rotation and size)

these three camera windows are equally distant from each other. The important thing to focus on is POSITIONING what each camera view sees when it holds... and has almost nothing to do with controlling the timing.

Next, focus on the Camera Time/Position window. Stretch it as long as will fit on the screen. You will advance the red frame line to choose the exact frames where you will be inserting TIME keyframes.

6. Now, open Time Profile window - Advance the red frame line to the frame where the first camera hold will end = horizontal line length determines length of pause. Create a keyframe touching the bottom of the project window.
7. Move red frame line forward to where you want the second window view pause to start and set a keyframe drag it up until the camera mask and the second window coincide. This will be the start frame for the second pause.
8. Move the red frame line forward again to where you want the second window pause to end and set another keyframe that is the same vertical height as the previous one. The length of this horizontal segment determines how long the pause in window two will be.
9. Move the red frame line forward to where you want the third window view to start and set a keyframe touching the top of the project window.
10. The distance from this keyframe to the final keyframe in the upper right corner determines the length of the pause for the last window.

Test the window positions and the length of their pauses by playing back the scene. Tweak the keyframes to refine the timing but remember, the vertical progression keyframe to keyframe is what determines and controls the TIMING of the camera moves.

11. Finally, you can insert additional points on the two diagonal time segments to introduce ease in and ease out to the horizontal pauses.

Sven

[David_Fine]

Thanks for this, Sven. In my case, the move does not stop, it just goes from A through B and to C, but the same theory applies as you describe, just without the flat part. The problem is that the camera does not follow the path I expect, but zooms back slightly while moving from A to B. This gives a swimming quality which does not look right. A and B are the same field just B is east of A, so why would the camera pull out a bit and then back in to get to B? It should remain the same, so that's what I don't get. I know some just do not use the camera in TVPaint, but instead use After Effects, but it doesn't seem right that TVPaint can't do a simple move like this without going off the path, for some reason.

[Svengali]

David,
are you setting the Camera Mode to Linear instead of the default mode SmartSpline?

[D.T. Nethery]

Thanks for this, Sven. In my case, the move does not stop, it just goes from A through B and to C, but the same theory applies as you describe, just without the flat part. The problem is that the camera does not follow the path I expect, but zooms back slightly while moving from A to B. This gives a swimming quality which does not look right. A and B are the same field just B is east of A, so why would the camera pull out a bit and then back in to get to B? It should remain the same, so that's what I don't get. I know some just do not use the camera in TVPaint, but instead use After Effects, but it doesn't seem right that TVPaint can't do a simple move like this without going off the path, for some reason.

David -

It's a little tricky, that's for sure. Through a lot of experimenting I'm better at it now . The beast can be mastered !
Are you able to share the scene file you're working on for this move ? I might be able to show you better if I'm not guessing a exactly what it is you're trying to
achieve. If it's not something you can share on a public forum, I understand. You're welcome to PM me and I can sign an NDA before viewing your file.

-DN

[David_Fine]

Sure. Thank you. Here is the file with the camera move. It's pretty simple, so I don't mind it being on here. You can see that as you move through, it goes wider, beyond the field, and then zooms in. I tried to make the move as smooth as I can, but it just won't stop doing that. In the picture below, you can see that A, B and C positions. A and B are the same field, but B is east of A and C is smaller than A and B, but you can see that during the move, as indicated by the highlighted area, the camera is wider than any of the fields. This is the problem.

screenshot_1700.jpg (52.8 KiB) Viewed 34210 times

screenshot_1699.jpg (36.92 KiB) Viewed 34244 times

Camera move sample.tvpp

(1.12 MiB) Downloaded 1084 times

[D.T. Nethery]

David, I'll take a look at it later today and see if I can work it out so that it doesn't have that extra "swimming" zoom-out/zoom-in movement you don't want.

I would be interested if someone from TVPaint could explain what is happening when the camera is moving between two camera positions which are both the same width and height , but during the middle portion of the move the camera view zooms out wider , then zooms in again , creating this odd "swimming" movement during what should be a smooth left-to-right camera move . How can that be avoided ? The only way I know is to put the Camera in Linear mode , instead of Spline or Smart Spline , but then we lose the subtly of it being in spline mode. See David's remarks above, re: "The problem is that the camera does not follow the path I expect, but zooms back slightly while moving from A to B. This gives a swimming quality which does not look right. A and B are the same field just B is east of A, so why would the camera pull out a bit and then back in to get to B? It should remain the same, so that's what I don't get. "

[David_Fine]

I edited my previous post to include a visual of the camera as well, so that one does not have to open the file to get the idea.

[meslin]

Not sure if this is helpful, but I have observed that the zoom attributes of the camera get reset (not interpolated) with each vertex on the path spline. you may need to set those individually.

[D.T. Nethery]

Not sure if this is helpful, but I have observed that the zoom attributes of the camera get reset (not interpolated) with each vertex on the path spline. you may need to set those individually.

Meslin brings up an important point.

So , here's what I was able to come up with after some fiddling around with it (see attached ; the .tvpp file is in the zipped file 'Camera Move Sample_New_Move.zip' ).

I added an extra point on the path (after your second point ) and I adjusted the zoom ratio on what was your third point (now the fourth point) to 72.21% . Combined with the new third point , this overlapped the point where the zoom-in starts.

On the first three points I made sure that the zoom ratio was exactly the same on each one (79.58% ) and the Y coordinate was exactly the same (463.60). Only the X coordinate changes as it moves from left to right .

Hall colour move_NEW.mov

(4.77 MiB) Downloaded 1364 times

(where it says "Click to Play" , you need to be using Firefox or Safari and activate the Quicktime plug-in . It won't play in Chrome , because Chrome
no longer supports Quicktime plug-in. Otherwise just download the movie from the link above - Hall colour move_NEW.mov )

[qt]800,450,download/file.php?mode=view&id=14601&si ... 38b33231b8[/qt]

[David_Fine]

Thank you. This is really helpful. So it seems that adding the extra position helps look it. Also, I had not typed in the Y and Z coordinates to match absolutely exactly, and that seems to be vital. I find that having done that, if I want to select a position to check the coordinates, clicking on the little box inevitably moves it a few pixels. Is there are way to move from one key position to another without clicking on the screen? They way you can do that in the Keyframer FX panel?

[D.T. Nethery]

Thank you. This is really helpful. So it seems that adding the extra position helps look it. Also, I had not typed in the Y and Z coordinates to match absolutely exactly, and that seems to be vital. I find that having done that, if I want to select a position to check the coordinates, clicking on the little box inevitably moves it a few pixels. Is there are way to move from one key position to another without clicking on the screen? They way you can do that in the Keyframer FX panel?

If it shifts slightly when you click it , just immediately hit Undo (CMD Z), and it will snap back to the previous position.

I would use the mouse rather than the pen . When I click on it with my mouse it's less apt to move.

You can use the coordinates slider arrows in the Tool Panel to avoid touching it (but this doesn't let you click from position to position ... for that you have to use the mouse)

Screen Shot 2017-02-14 at 1.45.24 PM.jpg (40.33 KiB) Viewed 34155 times

[David_Fine]

I know this has been said before, but a more user friendly update to the camera tool would be so appreciated. Especially for really simple moves like this. In a related note, if you work out a move and then change the length of the scene, it messes up the timing for the whole move. That's not good!

[Elodie]

And as it was answered before, it's a work in progress. Wait and see ! Thank you all for all these feedbacks, it's good to know we are in the right direction !

[David_Fine]

Oh, I'm very pleased to know that it's being worked on. Thank you. Any time line on that? I mean, weeks or months or... Thanks.