Which software is right for me?

[Jazzzy]

Hello folks!

I'm Rubén from Spain and I have been looking into TVPaint for quite a while.
I'm working on a game development project and I want to use traditional animation for all the sprites and backgrounds. I have some experience working with photoshop with my cintiq but animating in it seems kind of painful compared to TVPaint.

I wanted to ask you if TVP is the right tool for me. I'm mostly interested in raster based graphics, not a big fan of vectors. I know there must be are a few more tools that could fit the bill and since is quite the investment I felt like I should ask first.

Don't treat this as asking for the "Yes pls get TVP" answer that it seems I'm asking for being on this particular forum. I have read very objective opinions on this forum, even if you have bad things to say about the software so It seems like a great place to ask, especially since I would try to get the student version (maybe the prof. one if necessary) and that is an important amount of money to me.

Thanks a lot for your time!

Cheers!

Rubén

[slowtiger]

Hi Rubén,

I will definitely recommend TVPaint for animation since you want to achieve a traditional look and feel. Of course other animation software could do more or less the same, while being more or less comfortable to use, but that's a matter of personal taste, and TVP has the advantage of being customizable to a high degree.

There are, of course, some points which you shouldn't expect. TVP doesn't have any workflow routines implemented which might be important to game developing. It exports image sequences or video files, and that's it. If you need to build sprite sheets (is that the name?): nope. If you need a tight version control: nope. If you need to work with a library of symbols: nope. None of this is built-in, although some of it might be done with what's there and some scripting (some people develop plug-ins fpr TVP, so what you need might already exist), and other stuff, like version control, needs to be done in third-party-software or manually. But none of this exists in Photoshop either, so I'd say you're much better off with TVP anyway. I think you should do fine with the Debut version, you can always upgrade later.

If you could ask for some specific points and requirements we might be able to give more detailed answers!

[Fabrice]

If you need to build sprite sheets (is that the name?): nope.

My 2 cents : Thierry has developped a script for one of our users that was not yet shared. So just PM him.

[schwarzgrau]

A few years ago I tried to do a bit of handdrawn animation, after just drawing on paper or rarely in Photoshop. Since it is a pain in the ass to animate in Photoshop. Some plugins like Animators Toolbar or Anim Dessin (not developed anymore) made it at least possible, but still really annoying. Since I don't want to use vectors, I googled A LOT. And the only software I could find which seemed to do what I want was TVPaint, a software I never heard about before, which had an awful interface design (and I've used Blender 2.49 before). But after playing some time with the demo I was convinced to buy it (270€ student standard version). And I honestly never regret it.
Version 11 still has some quirks (nothing serious), but a much much better interface design and a lot of great features like CTG layers. And honestly if you would like to draw in pixels your choice is Photoshop with the Animators Toolkit or TVPaint.
In my opinion you should try the demo, if you're happy buy the standard version (even if the pro version has a lot of useful tools) to see if you like it, cause as far as I know the update to pro is exactly the difference between both versions.

[Jazzzy]

Hi Rubén,

I will definitely recommend TVPaint for animation since you want to achieve a traditional look and feel. Of course other animation software could do more or less the same, while being more or less comfortable to use, but that's a matter of personal taste, and TVP has the advantage of being customizable to a high degree.

There are, of course, some points which you shouldn't expect. TVP doesn't have any workflow routines implemented which might be important to game developing. It exports image sequences or video files, and that's it. If you need to build sprite sheets (is that the name?): nope. If you need a tight version control: nope. If you need to work with a library of symbols: nope. None of this is built-in, although some of it might be done with what's there and some scripting (some people develop plug-ins fpr TVP, so what you need might already exist), and other stuff, like version control, needs to be done in third-party-software or manually. But none of this exists in Photoshop either, so I'd say you're much better off with TVP anyway. I think you should do fine with the Debut version, you can always upgrade later.

If you could ask for some specific points and requirements we might be able to give more detailed answers!

Thanks a lot for your answer slowtiger!

The workflow stuff shouldn't be an issue. I have my own tools to create spritesheets based on raw .png files and version control is handled externally. And now that you mention it, I didn't knew you could easily code plug-ins for TVP. Right now I'm pretty busy but I might look into making some stuff for TVP to have more game developers working with it. Right now it's rare to see someone talking about TVP in that community and I think it can help to make awesome games.

As far as requirements, I mostly need tools for sketching, doing the line work and coloring animated sprites and backgrounds. I also need to export .png files with transparency but I guess all of that is pretty standard stuff. I might event try to do some short animated cutscenes if I think I'm able to

[Jazzzy]

A few years ago I tried to do a bit of handdrawn animation, after just drawing on paper or rarely in Photoshop. Since it is a pain in the ass to animate in Photoshop. Some plugins like Animators Toolbar or Anim Dessin (not developed anymore) made it at least possible, but still really annoying. Since I don't want to use vectors, I googled A LOT. And the only software I could find which seemed to do what I want was TVPaint, a software I never heard about before, which had an awful interface design (and I've used Blender 2.49 before). But after playing some time with the demo I was convinced to buy it (270€ student standard version). And I honestly never regret it.
Version 11 still has some quirks (nothing serious), but a much much better interface design and a lot of great features like CTG layers. And honestly if you would like to draw in pixels your choice is Photoshop with the Animators Toolkit or TVPaint.
In my opinion you should try the demo, if you're happy buy the standard version (even if the pro version has a lot of useful tools) to see if you like it, cause as far as I know the update to pro is exactly the difference between both versions.

Thanks for your answer!

You seem to have done a similar thing to what I'm doing looking for the right software. I will take your advice and give it a go

What is your take on the pro version? Are the additional tools worth it?

Cheers from Spain!

[Fabrice]

'm pretty busy but I might look into making some stuff for TVP to have more game developers working with it.

Interesting. Let us know what you need. If possible, we will develop it or propose some workaround scripts, like the Sprite Sheet.
Where are you based ?

[Elodie]

I take the liberty to move the topic since it's directly related to the use of TVPaint

[schwarzgrau]

You seem to have done a similar thing to what I'm doing looking for the right software. I will take your advice and give it a go

By the way I've tried the Animation Toolbar yesterday again and If you already own Photoshop you should try it too, before buying TVPaint. Since there are only two options, you should probably try both. Patrick Deen put a lot of effort in it and it's great for what it is. But he still needs to do a lot of workarounds, since Adobe don't give a shit about handdrawn animation. And even if they would do, they would probably need a lot of time to compete again the toolset TVPaint has added over the last years.

What is your take on the pro version? Are the additional tools worth it?

Honestly I had to look up the differences here, cause I switched from TVPaint 10 Standard to 11 Pro and I'm never completely sure if this and that is a pro feature or just something coming with the new version. It heavily depends on how you work I guess.
I love the CTG layers and often use the warp tool, but except from that I rarely use any pro features. But my workflow does include a lot of After Effects. I guess the blending modes and effects can be quite handy for a lot of people. I just bought it, cause I thought it would be cheaper to choose the "pro route" as a student.
Check the table and if you're still unsure go with the standard version and upgrade to pro later, if you feel the need for it.

[Jazzzy]

'm pretty busy but I might look into making some stuff for TVP to have more game developers working with it.

Interesting. Let us know what you need. If possible, we will develop it or propose some workaround scripts, like the Sprite Sheet.
Where are you based ?

I'm in Spain, currently in Santiago de Compostela (Galicia).

The main things someone could need would be maybe support for spritesheets and a file with important data related to it (JSON tends to be a good option). In that kind of file people puts stuff like where the image is located in the spritesheet, its size, duration of the frame in milliseconds, origin point (for drawing or pivoting) and some other stuff. If the software supports animated sprites they tend to include a tag with the name of the animation and the frames needed in order (or which are the first and last frames).

I can post an example link over here taken from Aseprite, a PixelArt animation software used very often for game development.

https://github.com/Jazzzy/It_Fights/blo ... a_0.2.json

And here you can see a fragment of the file:

Code: Select all

{ "frames": [
   {
    "filename": "prota_0.2 0.ase",
    "frame": { "x": 0, "y": 0, "w": 64, "h": 64 },
    "rotated": false,
    "trimmed": false,
    "spriteSourceSize": { "x": 0, "y": 0, "w": 64, "h": 64 },
    "sourceSize": { "w": 64, "h": 64 },
    "duration": 80
   },
   {
    "filename": "prota_0.2 1.ase",
    "frame": { "x": 64, "y": 0, "w": 64, "h": 64 },
    "rotated": false,
    "trimmed": false,
    "spriteSourceSize": { "x": 0, "y": 0, "w": 64, "h": 64 },
    "sourceSize": { "w": 64, "h": 64 },
    "duration": 80
   },
   ...
 ],
 "meta": {
  "app": "http://www.aseprite.org/",
  "version": "1.1.13",
  "image": "prota_0.2.png",
  "format": "RGBA8888",
  "size": { "w": 1024, "h": 512 },
  "pivot": {"x":0.5,"y":0.671875},
  "scale": "1",
  "frameTags": [
   { "name": "IDLE_LEFT", "from": 0, "to": 0, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "RUN_LEFT", "from": 1, "to": 12, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "IDLE_RIGHT", "from": 13, "to": 13, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "RUN_RIGHT", "from": 14, "to": 25, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "IDLE_UP", "from": 26, "to": 26, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "RUN_UP", "from": 27, "to": 38, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "IDLE_DOWN", "from": 39, "to": 39, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "RUN_DOWN", "from": 40, "to": 51, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "ATTACK_RIGHT", "from": 52, "to": 58, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "ATTACK_LEFT", "from": 59, "to": 65, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "ATTACK_UP", "from": 66, "to": 72, "direction": "forward" },
   { "name": "ATTACK_DOWN", "from": 73, "to": 79, "direction": "forward" }
  ],
  "layers": [
   { "name": "bottom", "opacity": 255, "blendMode": "normal" },
   { "name": "leftArm", "opacity": 255, "blendMode": "normal" },
   { "name": "head", "opacity": 255, "blendMode": "normal" },
   { "name": "legs", "opacity": 255, "blendMode": "normal" },
   { "name": "body", "opacity": 255, "blendMode": "normal" },
   { "name": "rightArm", "opacity": 255, "blendMode": "normal" }
  ]
 }
}

[Elodie]

Regarding Pro / standard differences : basically, both are made to animate and create brushes.

However, with the Pro you can use the 64 bit version (= more powerful to handle HD projects), use CTG layers (for fast colouring), use twice more FX (texturing, keying, etc...), you can use the Library, the Warp tool (to distort shapes...), blending modes for layers, multi soundtracks, enjoy advanced storyboard features, etc...

Regarding sprites : Thierry will post a script soon

[schwarzgrau]

Oh of course I forgot 64bit. Yea, that's also a big plus!