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I don't agree completely. I think I use either balloons or my knowledge of real anatomy in every drawing, but just in my mind, not on paper. There's always the knowledge of construction at present. As I explain to children: "I just see it in my mind, and then I draw a line around it on paper."

slowtiger wrote: and then I draw a line around it on paper."

This is what I am warning against; this is the rut and the curse of the balloons. This is where we part. In my mind I see a single line, not shapes. It is the first line I draw which is usually a long one that might go down the entire length of a body and that line is like the DNA of the form to come. It carries the dynamics, the mood, the body language, the spirit of the character to momentarily appear. I might start that line several times over to get it right. It's the most important line before all the others quickly follow, because they just build upon what the first one indicates.

This is why I love so much digital drawing because lines can be deleted with a tap on a key, not rubbed and smeared off the surface with an eraser. It is what speeds up the animation process, whereas those circles that are drawn around and around until the first balloon is as thick and ugly as a turd slow the process down. They come from the limitations of paper and pencil, always so dependent on the eraser.

I can already hear others saying, We are all different and have different ways, but to that I say if you start with balloons you suppress the uniqueness within you and disallow yourself to be different. Only a single line will bring out your uniqueness. Tracing around the balloon in your head is just the first step of liberation from the rut you had once gotten yourself into.

I always start with the eye, and determine a character's feeling from that point. I don't know why I always do this.. I think it helps me to lock in an expression, then build a character around it. I like the idea of this single line of a character's dna. Something to try in that old dead tree sketchbook I still keep around.

I always start with lines, to define a movement. And when the "bases" are made, I still start to draw eyes and face too

Paul, I think you got me wrong. What I meant was that I draw a single line around the whole character ...

I remember back in the 80's I did a whole series of drawings consisting of only one line, just the outline of the silhouette of a whole realistic scene. Can't find them right now, I think I had Cavandoli in mind at that time.

It's never a problem to do a single drawing in that fashion. But it gets difficult right when I want to animate that. There has to be some construction underneath, no matter wether I draw it or just keep it in my mind. It doesn't necessarily have top be 3-dimensional or made of ballons or bones - sometimes its just a set of rules about proportions and such. (Paul Driessen's characters seem to flow smoothly in 2 dimensions, yet there is a constructural principle underneath.)

sometimes its just a set of rules about proportions and such

Mark, would you be willing to consider that the guiding light is a set of emotions and feelings, rather than a set of rules?

would you be willing to consider that the guiding light is a set of emotions and feelings, rather than a set of rules?

Hm ... not as either/or. Whatever artistic decisions I may make, however unconscious they are made, they always could be described as rules. I like to algorithmize my world, and I definitely don't like artists who explain their work in terms like "it's all kust inspiration / divine / poetic /you can't describe it". I prefer my artists to be a bit more self-reflecting.

Each character in a film is following a set of rules - otherwise it would be an undefined, ever-changing blob. These can be very simple rules like "character is all what is not background", so they will even work with completely abstract films. Other rules might be very specific, like "follow the style sheet" or "he's about 3 heads high" or "change colour every second frame".

But you can't draw an emotion or feeling. You can only draw some representation of it, and hope for the best that your audience will interpret this the same way as you do. The way you try to draw a certain expression can be schematic, like the cookie-cutter face expressions of a big part of animation industry. Or it can be done intuitively - but even then you follow some rules, like "eyes over mouth" or "do it with a 2B pencil" or "limp with the right foot" (or even "limp with one foot, but change sides from time to time") and the like. And if your work is really refined, like with a whole cast of different characters, then you'll have rules for each of them, to make them different from each other. One will always react slow, the other will always exaggerate, and so on. All these are rules, wether you write them down or not.

So this is what rules your process! Well, when dissected into such increments I have to agree with you; eyes over mouth is a good general rule to follow. But your analytical approach to drawing is so .... broken into parts... Music is made of notes, motion is made of frames, speech is made of sounds, audiences are made of people, people live in places. There must be a word that describes such a routine set of procedures but just thinking of one becomes so difficult for me because words are made of letters, and letters are separated by spaces...

It's not as if I always think and decide on such a small scale. It's more like having these little rules incorporated in one's artistic routine or workflow, so most of the time I follow them automatically. Which is a problem every time I want to do something new!

But I believe in general it's a good thing to be able to think this way. Good art has a direction, an inherent structure, it follows a set of rules the artist decided to use.

slowtiger wrote:I like to algorithmize my world

So you're a number or a math formula, and that is exactly what sets artists apart from the techs. An artist will never except to live in a world of calculated algorithms and math- explanations of the world - they are discoverers with open eyes. So they don't shut them when dreaming.

slowtiger wrote:But you can't draw an emotion or feeling.

Sorry, Markus that is complete nonsense. Really. Every drawing is emotion and feeling ( and it was in every time) even if you don't want to except it. It works like a recording device of the heart. Don't you think that even the most polished line doesn't talk about your emotions ???

Ah, how often I have had this discussion ...

Everything can be described in an algorithm. And I don't see the beauty of a flower diminished by the fact that its construction could be described with a fibonacchi curve and some cellular automatae rules.

And No, a drawing isn't emotion. A drawing is an expression of emotion, or maybe a representation of, and it could trigger another emotion, but it is never the emotion itself.

Hi everyone. I'm attempting my first animation with a storyline. As a self taught amateur, I'd appreciate any constructive feedback you guys can give.

You are welcome.

slowtiger wrote:Everything can be described in an algorithm

I hope you don't claim at next to have the world formula in your hands ... but it may look like the World of Warcraft - some AI and pathfinding algorithm - and looking closer to it - in the end they are some poor random function applied ... sold as "world".

slowtiger wrote:And No, a drawing isn't emotion. A drawing is an expression of emotion, or maybe a representation of, and it could trigger another emotion, but it is never the emotion itself.

That's old hat discussion, and putting it further emotion is not emotion--> it is a chemical process in the body, a chemical process is not a chemical process, it is ... . and so on until we're talking about the components of atoms. All neutral of course - because it is science.
Quite the opposite a line is not a line it has additional meaning which is bound to it, as a bread is not a bread it is more, as a building is not a building, as a uniform is not a uniform.

So my advice for newcomers to the line, draw them with your own heartbeat.

Hey Nick - When you asked for feedback, I don't suppose you were expecting a philosophical discussion on the nature of the line! Very interesting stuff though.

Or as my art school professor would say, Never push on your pencil; draw as if your eyes were closed.