Welcome to TVPaint Community forums !

slowtiger wrote:Yes, it's very vague in that respect - I get suspicious when a company can't name prices for their products.

You shouldn't be. All of the high end 2D products (ToonBoom, Digital Video/Toonz and ourselves) don't quote the prices for our biggest products on their websites. I can't speak for the others, but the reason we don't do it is because many times potential customers visit the website needing a certain number of licences, and they find a price and just multiply it up. Then they see that the cost is too high and they give up. What we do is encourage people to talk to us, to tell us what they need, because in most cases we can work with them to find a solution that works within their budget. A commercials company in New York wanting 10 licences is VERY different from a community centre in Krakow wanting 10 licences - not just because of what they can afford, but about how much support is necessary. If we printed prices we'd have to charge the most expensive price just to be safe. That would exclude many people.

As it is now, people talk to us, we use our experience and expertise to advise on the correct number and type of licences, and everybody's happy. And yes, if CelAction2D is too powerful for someone's needs, we tell them - and will even point them towards more suitable software.

slowtiger wrote:if you don't pay year after year, the whole software simply expires.

That might be true for other companies, but we have an optional Dormant Licence system so that people don't get stuck with expired software. Also, with our rental system, you only pay for the software when you use it. And for the permanent licence, if you want to upgrade it, you don't have to "backdate" your support contract to when your last support expired - meaning you can take a break for as long as you want.

While I'm here, here's a couple of more recent productions done with CelAction2D (the ones shown above are 5 years old):

http://www.awntv.com/channel/virtual-ma ... ar-bow-wow



And search for Humf and Mama Mirabelle's Home Movies too, I couldn't find any permanent links to them.



But anyway, this is TVPaint's forum, so I'll bring this back on topic - I just wanted to correct the false assumptions that had been made.

A lot of our clients have been using Photoshop to create assets for use in CelAction2D productions - now, thanks to the hard work of the TVPaint team, our clients can switch to TVPaint instead. Which is good news if you are a TVPaint expert and you're looking for a job in TV series.

Welcome Andy, seems that you are connected with CelAction2D - so may I ask:

-comparing it with Anime Studio where are the strong points of CA2D ?

and as a second, are you willing to tell where the road of partnership with TVP shall end up ?

Klaus Hoefs wrote:Welcome Andy, seems that you are connected with CelAction2D

Hi Klaus, thanks for the welcome.

Yes, I am VERY connected with CelAction2D.

Klaus Hoefs wrote:-comparing it with Anime Studio where are the strong points of CA2D ?

I am the wrong person to ask about a comparison with another company's product. Both products do broadly similar things, but we tend to be chosen for the more heavy-duty work, such as large series that require intensive support and customisation. We have a few clients who have done pilots in Anime Studio, then come to us for the full series production. As far as I know, it hasn't happened the other way around.

I prefer to let our clients' work speak for us. They evaluate all the software out there, and they choose us.

We're at FMX and Annecy this year, so drop by and see the product for yourself.

Klaus Hoefs wrote:and as a second, are you willing to tell where the road of partnership with TVP shall end up ?

Who knows? It starts out with dinner and a movie, then before you know it you're shopping for diapers.

But seriously, we believe in providing the animation industry with the tools it needs to thrive. So wherever we see an opportunity to help make animation better and easier, we'll take it. We're very open to suggestions as to how we could further utilise the power of TVPaint, and as more productions start working with TVPaint and CelAction2D together, I'm sure we'll be able to provide an even better pipeline.

Klaus Hoefs wrote:Welcome Andy, seems that you are connected with CelAction2D ...

afaik, he's the boss, CelAction CEO, (for Chief Executive Officer).
Welcome here, Mr CelAction.

AndyBlazdell wrote: It starts out with dinner and a movie, then before you know it you're shopping for diapers.

( Elodie ???????? )

Thanks for the swift reply, Andy !

Well it all sounds very interesting and makes me even more curious about CA2D !

Anyway will there be a direct import/export-in runtime -module by switching a simple button (like some others have) - that would be great !

Klaus Hoefs wrote:Anyway will there be a direct import/export-in runtime -module by switching a simple button (like some others have) - that would be great !

We try to separate the drawing from the animation process wherever we can - it makes for a more efficient production pipeline. The designers working with TVPaint work WYSIWYG, secure in the knowledge that their work will be carried through exactly into CelAction2D.

If someone does want to change the TVPaint file though, it is a simple one-click function to update it in the CelAction2D file.



@zigotto: Thanks for the welcome!

Andy,

Advanced rigging and animating of 2D elements sounds intriguing and potentially VERY useful but I looked in vain for any demonstration videos which show the actual workflow (prepping of resources, construction and editing of hierarchical links, rendering options and procedures, etc.) TVPaint users might feel better able to determine whether your software is suitable to their purposes if some over-the-shoulder video demos were available (especially in light of the fact that there is no down-loadable demo version offered). If such videos are available could you please post the links?

Sven

Andy,

Thank you for taking my comment in the right spirit. I hope I made it clear that my experiences came from other softwares than CelAction (and it's 15 years ago already!).

Maybe I'll give it a try with the demo version one day, but for the moment I feel more like already using more software than necessary. If the next paid job needs a larger team, I'll remember your software, because Anime Studio, as great as it is for a single user, seriously lacks the production management capabilities necessary for teams.

Svengali wrote:If such videos are available could you please post the links?

We're looking to do this for our next showreel, which will be out in the summer.

Thanks Andy, I look forward to it!

Sven

slowtiger wrote:Thank you for taking my comment in the right spirit. I hope I made it clear that my experiences came from other softwares than CelAction (and it's 15 years ago already!).

No problem! I knew what you meant, I just thought I should explain our way of thinking anyway.

slowtiger wrote:I feel more like already using more software than necessary.

I hear you. Hopefully initiatives like ours and TVPaint's will encourage better interoperability in other software too. We can hope...

slowtiger wrote:If the next paid job needs a larger team, I'll remember your software, because Anime Studio, as great as it is for a single user, seriously lacks the production management capabilities necessary for teams.

Cool (about remembering us, that is)! Please feel free to email or call us if you have any specific project requirements - the better we know what you need to do, the better we can help you. And we don't do the hard sell or bombard you with sales calls just because you contacted us once, so don't worry about that.

Oh, one more thing - our pace of development is very rapid, so never assume that what we could do a year ago is all we can do now. Like TVPaint, we have some of the best animators in the world working with our software, and those animators are constantly suggesting new features (and we're implementing them). If there's a particular feature you need, check with us, you might be surprised what we are working on...

Hi Andy, Welcome!
Nice to see you here.

i was pleasantly surprised to read the news of TVP and CelAction connecting.
And i hope it will bring both companies much benefit.

are you still a regular at Astley Baker Davies?

greetings,
Peter

Peter Wassink wrote:are you still a regular at Astley Baker Davies?

Hey Peter, how are you? Good to hear from you!

Yes, I'm at ABD quite a lot, soon to be more often as they gear up for the new series.

If you're at Annecy, drop by the stand.

I come a bit late in the topic because without an internet connexion recently, but I want to add my 2 cents. (when I read the topic last time, there was only the very first post !)

I meet Andy in september when I was visiting Folimage and doing a training in the school of La Poudrière in Valence.
As we were both involved in 2D animation software conception/marketing, we have discussed about several things. (compilation languages, training sessions, other softwares, common issues with resellers, etc ...)
Then we meet surprisingly later in an other studio in UK, then a third time in Lyon, etc ...

The fact that many 2D animation softwares have been bought by american and canadian companies (and sometimes stopped and/or discontinued) creates some links between the european remaining companies. ( Remember Creatoon, PEGS, Animo, CTP, etc ... how many are still alive today ? )

Andy wanted to push his customers to choose TVP Animation instead of the A..... products.
He asked if some changes in the import/export options were possible in order to help both TVP and Cel Action to communicate better (he even found some little bugs )
As our dev team use to do, they answered positively. Why not improve a pipeline if it's possible ?

Yes, it's very vague in that respect - I get suspicious when a company can't name prices for their products.

Also, I share some points of view with Andy :
Check here : http://www.tvpaint.com/v2/content/artic ... /index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; we have an official pricelist, but schools and studios are invited to fill a form and discuss with us about their needs.
Even in the same part of the world, close countries (f.i. like Japan China Korea) may have very different habits when speaking of animation, softwares and related business/prices.

CartoonMonkey wrote:Yes I brought up the addition of symbols, which led to a very heated debate about making TVP "too much like flash" and "a useless toy"..
And "we already have this, with the use of the animbrush / keyframer".

However a bones type system for a truly dynamic "super-animbrush" system in TVP 10, would be truly mind blowing, and a total boon for this type of cutout animation.
CelAction would even be in trouble..

Symbols or things working like symbols in flash begin to be present in all adobe products in a form or another.
I personnally think this is an exceptional time saving feature as well as a demonstration of the power of digital over analogic production methods.
I would love to have such feature in TVPAINT (or even in CUBASE !!!).
When you begin thinking with symbols you can't really feel good with a soft that doesn't have the feature. It's like the UNDO. I really mean, it is such powerful.