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Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 15 May 2014, 15:39
by Lukas
I always export to image sequences, but I need to import a lot of .mov files...
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 15 May 2014, 18:32
by Fabrice
hello schwarzgrau,
the png export in TVPaint is absolutely fine if you don't need an alpha-channel, but if you need one it never looks the way it should.
I might be wrong, but if the premultiply and no-premultiply options are used as they should, there is no problem with PNG.
If you think there is a bug, just open a topic about it, we will have a closer look together.
And I always got the problem that in nearly every sequence I rendered, exported whatever at least two images were missing.
Even in the lastest 10.5.7 ? If so, just do the above mentionned : open a new topic about it.
Unfortunately AVI isn't a format which you can expect much support for on an computer running OSX, as far as I know.
Once again, the internal AVI works on almost all players including the ones on Mac.
I was created by TVPaint to works on all platform (like Android were nobody can expect to use QT in the future) ... so we can debug, improve and support it easily.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 15 May 2014, 19:35
by slowtiger
I have no problems whatever with PNG with alpha export.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 15 May 2014, 19:57
by Paul Fierlinger
Has anyone of you Mac users tried PotPlay? It's probably the closest of the new players to QT and is getting a lot of good marks by filmmakers across the Net. I have it as my primary player now and am very happy with it.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 15 May 2014, 20:27
by slowtiger
I couldn't find any download for potplayer for Mac.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 15 May 2014, 20:52
by Paul Fierlinger
This is the first item that popped up when I googled potplayer for mac:
Download PotPlayer for Mac - MajorGeeks.com
dev.majorgeeks.com/files/details/potplayer.html
PotPlayer is a comprehensive video and audio player, that also supports TV channels, subtitles and skins. PotPlayer is a much improved/faster version of KMP....
First thing inside, this downloader showed up:
http://dev.majorgeeks.com/files/details/potplayer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 15 May 2014, 21:16
by slowtiger
That's still Windows only.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 15 May 2014, 21:42
by Paul Fierlinger
Really?!! Why the deceit? There seem to be lots of places claiming PotPlay for MAC. I don't get it. One is even in Korean, the only English words being "PotPlay for MAC" quite likely the direct source. I'd try that one; after all, it's free.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 15 May 2014, 21:55
by schwarzgrau
Fabrice wrote:hello schwarzgrau,
I might be wrong, but if the premultiply and no-premultiply options are used as they should, there is no problem with PNG.
If you think there is a bug, just open a topic about it, we will have a closer look together.
I tried to reproduce the bug, which always happened to the edges, no matter if I choose premultiply or no-premultiply, but the png with no-premultiply was absolutely fine.
Sorry It seems I always choosed premultiply, since there you can see this transparency checkerboard background.
Fabrice wrote:And I always got the problem that in nearly every sequence I rendered, exported whatever at least two images were missing.
Even in the lastest 10.5.7 ? If so, just do the above mentionned : open a new topic about it.
This shouldn't be an insult against TVPaint, more something like a general problem I got with PNG sequences, mostly from AfterEffects.
Fabrice wrote:Once again, the internal AVI works on almost all players including the ones on Mac.
I was created by TVPaint to works on all platform (like Android were nobody can expect to use QT in the future) ... so we can debug, improve and support it easily.
I gave it a first try and I must confess it looked better than expected and I can import it everywhere.
The wikipedia-page about the pot player says it's unfortunately only available for Windows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PotPlayer
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 16 May 2014, 05:31
by Fabrice
This shouldn't be an insult against TVPaint, more something like a general problem I got with PNG sequences, mostly from AfterEffects.
No worries, I didn't take it as an insult
but maybe misunderstood : the two missing images you mention are occuring when you play the animation in quicktime ? or when exporting with TVPaint / AE / etc ...?
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 16 May 2014, 07:30
by ematecki
schwarzgrau wrote:Sorry It seems I always choosed premultiply, since there you can see this transparency checkerboard background.
Premultiplied alpha isn't really supported in the PNG format, to emphasize this in the last build you should have a warning if you select premultiplied PNG.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 16 May 2014, 08:04
by Joost
We tried to find a quick and easy solution : there is not.
The only way to use a third-party 32 bit application when working with Quicktime is to spend months (no documents, no financial support and a 5-developers team = many months) just dedicated to THAT development, without being sure of future Apple policy! Honestly, it isn't worth it, sorry. There are much more interesting and important things to do in TVPaint.
Trust me, for film editing, image sequences in PNG are MUCH better than Quicktime files. And for final exports, AVI does exactly the same job. If other users and companies can do it, why can't you ?
An era is slowly coming to the end because Apple decided so : the faster you will accept it, the faster you will change your habits.
Thats too bad. But I can imagine it's too much work to fix it.
I use PNG sequences a lot, but it's not a good alternative for QT. The colours are worse compared a high quality quicktime, you can't play a sequence in you finder and you can't implement sound.
Avi is also not a good alternative. It's not supported for every other software for mac, and even the persons in my studio with a Windows computer prefer Quicktime.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 16 May 2014, 09:45
by Fabrice
The colours are worse compared a high quality quicktime
I had to read it to believe someone wrote that ...
PNG is not compressed while Quicktime in most situation does compress images and sometimes changes the gamma ...
Avi is also not a good alternative. It's not supported for every other software for mac, and even the persons in my studio with a Windows computer prefer Quicktime.
As far as I know, our internal AVI is supported by both VLC and Quicktime player on Macs/Windows/Linux and doesn't require codecs to be installed. If not, we should be able to fix it.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 16 May 2014, 10:01
by slowtiger
I'd really like to know which settings create PNGs which do not accurately reflect the colours created in TVP. I use PNGs and Quicktime files with PNG codec (Millions+ colours) all the time, set besides each other, and never ever experienced any difference in colour or quality.
Re: Quicktime : the dying and abandonned file format
Posted: 16 May 2014, 10:08
by schwarzgrau
Fabrice wrote:This shouldn't be an insult against TVPaint, more something like a general problem I got with PNG sequences, mostly from AfterEffects.
No worries, I didn't take it as an insult
but maybe misunderstood : the two missing images you mention are occuring when you play the animation in quicktime ? or when exporting with TVPaint / AE / etc ...?
Often images get corrupted or get lost completely after an export/render. The failure factor is just naturally higher if you work with hundreds of files, than only with one video file. As is wrote it has it's PROs, but even more CONTRAs, especially for the every day use.
ematecki wrote:schwarzgrau wrote:Sorry It seems I always choosed premultiply, since there you can see this transparency checkerboard background.
Premultiplied alpha isn't really supported in the PNG format, to emphasize this in the last build you should have a warning if you select premultiplied PNG.
Yea, there was this warning. A good idea by the way. But maybe you could add the checkerboard-background to the preview of NOT PREMULTIPLIED. I guess a lot of people get confused like me if some option has this transparency-checkerboard and the other option hasn't it, but would be the right choice.