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isd wrote: Of cours it also depends of what you animate. This technique is most effective on inbetweening evangelion robots than on bugs bunny.

Ahhh... that. Now I understand (and without even knowing what evangelion robots are).

Fabrice wrote:Hello Isd,

did you try this button ?

Use the left mouse button and move the mouse (then release the mouse button)
or
Use the right mouse button. (it keeps the lighttable settings with the out of pegs)

Thanks for the help, I didn't know this button
But this flips between the frames of the timelines (like the "w" key) not between the drawings we have transformed with the buttons at the bottom of the light table.

It is not easy to explain clearly maybe but what I would like is the possiblity to flip between the drawings temporarily rotated/moved with the buttons at the bottom of the light table.

The reason for this is that if you have keys relatively distant from each other, flipping through them can't help much for the inbetween we are trying to draw. So I would like to be able to flip between the drawings I have moved close to each other temporarily.
If it is easily implements I would be very grateful to see this feature.
As I said, only Retas has this feature but it doesn't allow to paint so having this feature in TVpaint would make it very powerful (at least for the people who effectively use such a feature... but those who don't use it may find it useful if they had it I think).

slowtiger wrote:From my assistant & inbetweenig days I remember the workflow like this: first you do a rough inbetween with all drawings on pegs - you need to know where your inbetween goes. Only after that you take the drawings off the pegs and turn the rough into a clean inbetween. Flipping while off the pegs is not for controlling the animation but the accuracy of the inbetween in terms of volume and being on-model.

Since off-peg inbetweening is only necessary in scenes where there's a bigger distance between moving objects in consecutive frames, it's not necessary to be painstakingly exact as one would need to be in a scene with a very slow movement (I'm talking about cramming an inbetween line between thin pencil lines which already touch!). If the scene works on the pegs, it's OK.

Exactly.
But if you want just for the fun of it to draw slow motions or robot animation, you would like to have this feature, or at leaast you would like to know it is here for when you need it ^^

ZigOtto wrote: Regarding the ability to flip off-pegs, Slowtiger explained it beautifully, to get the inbetweens as accurate as possible,
I just think it could be useful in only few cases, but why to go for more accuracy than the eyes can percieve ?
animation (cinema art in general) isn't the art to fool the viewer's eyes ...?
so my credo is : if it works in-pegs, no need to work again and again and reach an extra-accuracy which noboby care ...

Wel everybody's eyes are not equal nevertheless I don't agree that it is not visible or that nobody cares. I agree thant the common spectator doesn't even remark it but this is not a reason to lower you own standards.
The way you inbetween is visible in the final result, and I can say that at least for me I am terribly sensitive to waving lines on inbeweens. It makes what should have been a beautiful animation a cheap "I had no time to do it correctly" thing.

The way you inbetween is visible in the final result, and I can say that at least for me I am terribly sensitive to waving lines on inbeweens. It makes what should have been a beautiful animation a cheap "I had no time to do it correctly" thing.

Damn! Those are fighting words. Where can we see something you have done?

But if you want just for the fun of it to draw slow motions or robot animation, you would like to have this feature, or at leaast you would like to know it is here for when you need it ^^

If I had to animate robots, I'd use 3D. If I'd need to do reeeaaally slow motion, I'd use Anime Studio to do numerous inbetweens between two neighboured pixels.

The way you inbetween is visible in the final result, and I can say that at least for me I am terribly sensitive to waving lines on inbeweens.

Inbetweening off the pegs is, in my experience, only necessary if the spacing of the moving item is bigger than the item itself, or the turning angle is bigger than 30°. In those cases there will be no "waving line" because the items are too far from each other in successive frames.

Of course every inbetweener will use every available shortcut in his work, especially when paid by footage. There's a proverb among german graphic designers: "Don't draw what you can trace - don't trace what you can copy - don't copy what you can clip and glue." The same applies to inbetweens. It's a matter of studio politics to either allow (or even encourage) this practice, or to insist on having every inbetween drawn manually, starting with a rough to indicate position and volume. Wether you succeed as an inbetweener just depends on your training. I used to be pretty fast even with the cleanup standards of Benjamin Blümchen, but since then my hand got more nervous. That's one reason why I use a bolder and deliberately wiggly line now. And I'm not above stamping the same drawing into different positions if possible - OK, make that 3 nearly-identical drawings so no one will notice.

Paul Fierlinger wrote:

The way you inbetween is visible in the final result, and I can say that at least for me I am terribly sensitive to waving lines on inbeweens. It makes what should have been a beautiful animation a cheap "I had no time to do it correctly" thing.

Damn! Those are fighting words. Where can we see something you have done?

I work in japan for 5 years and most of the people are better than me.
When you see some incredibly japanese animation, volumes perfectly conserved and very smooth inbetweening (even at 8 drawings a second) you know the guy had to draw perfect inbeweens.
Japanese animation is often at 8 drawings by second, this means you have to draw a lot more precisely because each of your drawing is somewhat visible. At 12 or 24 drawings by second you don't have the time or the will to draw all the frames perfectly. If this explanation can help a little.
It all depends on where you put the line of the balance.

So to give a conclusion, if TVpaint had the feature requested it would maybe sell better in japan, if advertised correctly.

So to give a conclusion, if TVpaint had the feature requested it would maybe sell better in japan, if advertised correctly.

I sent you a PM

using glovepie will enable you to acess keyboard shortcuts with midi
http://glovepie.org/glovepie.php