Welcome to TVPaint Community forums !

Done a nice keyframe move with a few different keyframes and I want the moves to have a bit of an ease in and out. So I use the Speed Profile to add a slight curve in and out, but when I do that, the move gets totally messed up starting way after the actual keyframe positions. I can see that I am not supposed to just add a single curve, but it's confusing how I do this for multiple keyframe positions. I want each keyframe to have the same gentle ease in and out. What's the simple way to do that?

I've never got this working for me in any program. Either the curve is just right, or I have to do it manually. In TVP I just use old-fashioned charts and nudge the artwork to that by hand in each frame.

slowtiger wrote:I've never got this working for me in any program.

In ANY program? It's pretty easy in EVERY program I use (except of TVPaint). And it's the main reason I never use the keyframer in TVPaint.

What do you use instead of TVPaint? After Effects? I am surprised that the keyframer is not easier to use given how important a simple camera move is.

Yea, since I always do the compositing in After Effects it's not a big deal, but it would be nice if the keyframer would be a it more useful.

I like to try to do everything in TVPaint so it's all just done. When you use AE to composite, are you exporting all the layers and putting them together in AE, or just doing a camera move there on the fully rendered, complete TVP file? If the latter, I presume you export it at higher rez so that it can be zoomed in on or around for the camera move in AE. What format do you export from TVP to use in AE?

David_Fine wrote:Done a nice keyframe move with a few different keyframes and I want the moves to have a bit of an ease in and out. So I use the Speed Profile to add a slight curve in and out, but when I do that, the move gets totally messed up starting way after the actual keyframe positions. I can see that I am not supposed to just add a single curve, but it's confusing how I do this for multiple keyframe positions. I want each keyframe to have the same gentle ease in and out. What's the simple way to do that?

It's definitely more awkward than it should be. I believe they are working on improving the function of the KeyFramer, but hard to know when it will be released.

How many moves are you trying to do within the scene ? Does the camera stay a consistent size as it moves from point to point or is it zooming-in or zooming-out during the moves from point to point ? Can you show an example of the type of moves you're trying to do ? (I realize you probably don't want to post images of your current project ,but I mean an example that is similar to what you're trying to do.)

It gets harder to control when it's something like :

1.) Move from Position A (slow-out of Pos.A) to Position B (slow-in to Pos. B) .... pause ...
2.) Move and zoom-in from Position B (slow-out) to Position C (slow-in) ... and pause ...
3.) Move from Position C (slow-out) to Position D (slow-in .... and pause ...
4.) Move and zoom-out from Position D (slow-out) to Position E (slow-in) .

It's a horizontal move without zooming. A to B and hold, then to C and hold then back to A and hold. I can do it just fine with keyframer, but it's the adding the easing in and out which messes things up. I am really surprised that the camera move function is so hard to use. This seems like one of the very basic things which should be right as a priority so I do hope there is a plan to address it, but I suspect it will not be in the next few days and I kind of need it now.

David_Fine wrote:It's a horizontal move without zooming. A to B and hold, then to C and hold then back to A and hold. I can do it just fine with keyframer, but it's the adding the easing in and out which messes things up. I am really surprised that the camera move function is so hard to use. This seems like one of the very basic things which should be right as a priority so I do hope there is a plan to address it, but I suspect it will not be in the next few days and I kind of need it now.

I think for what you are trying to accomplish with A to B and hold, then to C and hold then back to A and hold , the Camera Tool would be a better solution than the KeyFramer . See Zig Otto's workaround method:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9133#p83989" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I may paraphrase Zig's instructions:

Camera tool for a Position A> to > Pos. B> (HOLD) to > Pos. C (HOLD) > and back to > Pos. A --

You know how long the entire scene is and how long you want the holds at the end of each move to be , but for purposes of demonstration I
will say that the entire scene is 400 frames , and the move from A to B takes 120 frames (with holds and slow-in/slow-out
on either end of the move). B to C takes 140 frames (also with holds and slow-in/slow-out on either end) , then C back to A
takes 140 frames . This may be nothing like the timing of the camera moves in your scene , but for the demonstration this
is what I'll use. (and obviously , my quicky demonstration of this is just using a still background image , no animation , but if all your animation layers are finished and colored ,then this technique to Split Clips and apply individual Camera moves to each clip should work , so then export it as a single unified clip , not three individual clips , for a seamless camera move from Pos. A to B to C to A . )

-In the Project tab, split the Clip (scene) into 3 separate Clips, A to B (120 frames) , B to C (140 frames) , C to A (140 frames)
(Split Clip in the Clip Menu)

-Now you will have to set 3 simple (2 point) Camera Moves.

- set Camera position for Pos. A and Pos. B in the first clip , with the slow-out/slow-in on the Time Profile . (remember that a flat line will be a HOLD with no movement)

- go to next clip B - to - C : RMB click on the center point of the camera field = "Copy last point of previous clip" to precisely copy the last position of the camera from Pos. B into the start of the second clip , then set the camera position for Pos. C.

- go to next clip C - to - A : RMB click on the center point of the camera field = "Copy last point of previous clip" to copy the last position of the camera from Position C into the start of the third clip . Since you are going back to Pos. A from Pos. C instead of creating a new Pos. D , you should also go to the first Clip "A -to - B" in the Project view and select that clip, Copy , then Paste it AFTER the third clip , so now for your final camera position you would RMB click on the center point of the camera field = "Copy first point of next clip" . (You see ? So that will exactly copy camera Pos. A into the the third clip, so the camera returns precisely to that starting point . After you've done this you can hide or delete the copy of clip A to B .)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Vn8sWcGfE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I hope the attached files will make the procedure clear.

i would split it up.

first do the AB part with a simple easy in ease out speed curve
then apply the second part BC, with a new keyframer in the stack

David_Fine wrote:I like to try to do everything in TVPaint so it's all just done. When you use AE to composite, are you exporting all the layers and putting them together in AE, or just doing a camera move there on the fully rendered, complete TVP file? If the latter, I presume you export it at higher rez so that it can be zoomed in on or around for the camera move in AE. What format do you export from TVP to use in AE?

Yea, I would like to do everything in TVPaint too, but that's always a big struggle. So I animate and draw everything in TVPaint. When I'm done I use Mads invaluable AfterEffects export script. It exports image sequences from all visible layers as PNG (it only exports the keyframes, to save space). Mads AE script then imports all these images, so that you get an exact copy of your TVPaint project in AE. There I do all the colors, camera moves and effects (glow etc.).

Thank you so much for this really excellent help. I have never actually used the 'split clip' thing. Doing three clips, each with simple A-B camera moves solves this problem completely and avoids using the keyframer. Would be nice if I could use the camera to do a move like this without the bother of splitting clips up, but hey, this works very well in the end, but it is a little less intuitive and requires more steps. Good thing you folks are here to help me!

I have two small questions. DT, I'm unclear why you suggest copying the first clip and then deleting it later. I split my scene into three clips which run sequentially and that works, so I'm unclear about this copy and then delete advice. Also, I have exported the three clips separately, but is there a way to have three clips, as I do, but export them all together as one file? Just makes things a little easier if I can, but not the end of the world if I can't.

Again, thanks everyone for the great advice.

David_Fine wrote:
I have two small questions. DT, I'm unclear why you suggest copying the first clip and then deleting it later. I split my scene into three clips which run sequentially and that works, so I'm unclear about this copy and then delete advice.

Well, for me to get back from Camera Position C at the start of Clip #3 to the exact same Camera Position A (copied over from the Clip #1) at the end of Clip #3 , I needed to have Clip #1 copied to be the Next Clip after Clip #3 , so then when I clicked on the middle point I had the option to "Copy first point of Next Clip" .

Also, I have exported the three clips separately, but is there a way to have three clips, as I do, but export them all together as one file?

Yes. When you export from Project Display tab uncheck the box next to Split Scenes. This will export all three Clips as a single continuous clip , instead of as three separate clips.
(click images to see them larger)


.

Peter and D.T.
Thanks for the thorough and cogent discussion/solution to the ease-in,ease-out camera move dilemma! It should all be immediately edited down into a single entry and inserted in the user manual.

Sven

Yes to Sven's comment! Thank you DT. Now I get it! )