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PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 07:52
by DanielRenard
Hello TVPaint Animation

Early this morning, I was working in my .tvpp file, which I have been working on/off with for approximately a year now.
It's a frivolous project, mainly for fun and practicing the use of TVP, however, I worked with this project very intensely.
The file was around 1GB in size (+/-) depending on how often I would merge layers and delete roughs/storyboard layers as the completion gradually came along.
954 MB since last it was saved.

While casually drawing on a frame within the file, my PC froze.
(I've been blaming this on either Avast Antivirus or Windows Auto-Updates/Maintenance, as it occasionally happens, usually around the time where these become the most active).

I let my PC sit for a while, frozen, but ruled out that it was going to come around, so I rebooted my PC, mournfully, as I was losing at least 45 minutes of unsaved work.
Allowing my PC to fully reboot and load up everything, before popping back into TVP to survey the loss.

I go to my recently opened file and pick out my usual work file, click it and wait; being a 1GB file, it would usually take a while to load, so I was used to staring at a blank canvas for a few seconds, before the loading bar and the file would actually load up... but the blank canvas remained.
Trying again, thinking I had miss-clicked from the drop menu. Still not loading.
Instead, I go into the file path to open the file directly out of the folder and I click it there, but it still takes me to a blank canvas.
I look at it again in the file path and I see something weird. Where it says Resolution, it gives me a "?" where all other TVPP and image files neatly state their resolution.
They all state a file size too and my TVPP file which I attempt to open also normally states 1GB, so I assume my data was still present within the file.

I get quite nervous, yet inquisitive as the file SHOULD be unscathed, seeing as how I was NOT SAVING the file at the time of the crash,
but merely drawing with my tablet pen on the screen at the time where the crash occurred.

I take a few copies of my troubled file to see if renaming them in a different folder and reopening them would do something for me, but nothing.
In an attempt to see if I could actually view if some of the meta data was missing from the file, I try to open a different, unrelated TVPP file as a TXT file to virtually see the data, for comparison.
This other TVPP file, as expected, had a nice big chunk of meta data, stating its name, resolution, frame rate and everything,
so I go take a look at my troubled TVPP(copy) file . There are nothing by blank symbols(spaces), all the way through each and every one of those 954 MB worth of data.

Is my hard work completely destroyed? If so. How? and Why?
Even if I wasn't saving the file, at the time of the crash?

Before you ask, yes, I DID indeed have a backup file... from the 25th last month, which is now 2 weeks ago, and because I wanted to finish the file for the 25th of THIS month, I had been working myself to the bones to get this done on time and I had an estimated amount of 1-2 weeks left to go, to clean, color and shade the final missing frames.
As I wrote this, I looked at my saved two-weeks old backups as well as a sampled AVI file, 3 days later than my back-up, the amount and extent of the work I had done in those past two weeks is pretty intense and a lot of it, I was quite proud of... redoing all of this would be beyond traumatic.

Is there anything I can do at all?

A previous post stating corrupted files (where a PC shuts down while saving) requested their computer specs, so here are mine:

Code: Select all

Windows 8
ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC.	
ASUS Desktip PC CG8270 Series
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40GHz 
12GB RAM
64 bit OS, x64-based processor

WACOM Cintiq21x
hidkmdf.sys: Windows (R) Win 7 DKK provider. File ver. 6.1.7600.16385
wachidrouter.sys: Wacom Technology 1.2.0001.5
wdfcoinstaller01009.dll: Microsoft Corp. 1.9.7600.16385 (win7_rtm.090713-1255)

TVP Animation 10 Pro (10.5.7-64 bits) - (fully updated version.)
Thank you for your time!

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 08:13
by Fabrice
Hello,

Can you upload the file and send me a link in a PM ?
We will look at it, but maybe on monday only.

Regards,
Fabrice.

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 08:24
by Elodie
Thank you for the complete explanation, that will be useful !

We will see if we can save something from your file after you send it.

However, to avoid this behaviour again, I strongly advise you to enable the auto - back up files option in Edit > Preferences.

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 15:39
by DanielRenard
Thank you both kindly, for the response!

I've altered my preference settings to take a couple backups now.
I've dug through my own, latest back-up file from 2 weeks ago, chopped it up into individual characters, each to their own file, which will greatly reduce file size and grant me easier overview of the layers with the character I wish to animate.

For the main file, it's not looking good, since it seems the data in the TVPP file was wiped completely clean for no apparent reason.
It appears I'll have to repeat 2 weeks worth of intense work, but now with the alteration to the file, I MAY be able to speed up the process a little.
However, I've still uploaded the file and will be sending a PM in just a second.

Again, thank you for your time.

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 19:26
by red dave
Have you checked the restore option in Windows? It might have a recent point in time before the crash.

In the link below it's the "Restore your PC to an earlier point in time".

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... h-reset-pc

You can also set an auto-save in TVP which i think is very useful.

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 10 Mar 2017, 20:19
by DanielRenard
red dave wrote: 10 Mar 2017, 19:26 Have you checked the restore option in Windows? It might have a recent point in time before the crash.

In the link below it's the "Restore your PC to an earlier point in time".

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... h-reset-pc

You can also set an auto-save in TVP which i think is very useful.
I did go into the 'Restore' option and looked through the list of what it would affect, but it seems it will only some unrelated program would be removed if I tried that.
There's no File History active on my PC, if that's what you mean. Sadly, I've been goading myself to get an External Hard drive, specifically for backups and storing away old/completed files. But I've been trying to conserve money, however, it seems like something I really ought to do.

I still don't get why the file was affected like this. Feels like at the time of the crash, the PC messed up something and there's probably now some big, 1GB+/- Temp file sitting, with all the data on.

Either way, thank you for your help! I'll try and mess around with it a bit longer, but over the day, I'm been pulling a lot of tricks to restore as much as possible, by my own ability. Like extracting frames from an AVI using stencils, which I saved a few days after the backup.

It's not a complete loss so far, but still a harsh blow. I will press on!

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 11 Mar 2017, 21:51
by Fabrice
. Like extracting frames from an AVI using stencils
The Scan Cleaner FX can be a good trick too to recover from an AVI (if you have used a white BG).

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 11 Mar 2017, 22:55
by DanielRenard
Fabrice wrote: 11 Mar 2017, 21:51
. Like extracting frames from an AVI using stencils
The Scan Cleaner FX can be a good trick too to recover from an AVI (if you have used a white BG).
Thanks, but I'm alright.
Basically, I had existing linework and flat colored (no light/shading) layers work as inverted stencils for the avi frames to crop out the completed frames of the character, away from the background. That worked out really nicely!
Stencils are so useful, but I still remember my first accidental experience with it... "Ahh! Why can't I draw on the screen anymore?! Did my digitize break?" Haha!

Additionally, I sat and thought about what could've happened to the file.
The way it crashes, is the classic manner where the screen stops moving and you hear the droning buzz of whichever sound was playing at the time of the crash, like a repeating one frame of animation. Earlier Windows reports states this is due to "Memory overuse", which I've actually caught Avast Antivirus to do occasionally in Task Manager.
Like I said, I let my PC sit for a while, before I returned to reboot it, BUT before actually rebooting it, I rubbed my hand across the keyboard, pushing all keys on the way, to see if I could snap it out of the crash.
So my thought is, what if the Computer was somewhat responsive to commands during that "1 frame loop" and I actually managed to trigger something like "Shift S" and it initiated the Save, prepping the file to save/rewrite it, but it never got to that part and just wiped everything clean in an instant in an attempt to replace the data on the file?

This is really all I can think happened. Nothing like this has happened before, so I really don't know. I'm pretty sure the file I sent is completely void of data.

The clenching, sinking feeling of defeat of lost progress has nearly passed though and I've managed to prep the files, separating each character into their individual file (now with Backups x3!!! :wink: ) and I almost prefer working this way now, as I have easier access to frames of each character, instead of having to scroll through hundreds to locate, saving many seconds in the process, so I might actually be able to catch up, even though it's a lot of work ahead of me.
It was a costly learning experience, never the less! :idea:

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 12 Mar 2017, 00:00
by o0Ampy0o
DanielRenard wrote: 10 Mar 2017, 07:52...go to my recently opened file and pick out my usual work file, click it and wait; being a 1GB file, it would usually take a while to load, so I was used to staring at a blank canvas for a few seconds....
Can you break things up into smaller sections and piece them together later? If your system struggles with the 1GB file size you are going to be vulnerable to hiccups. In theory at least you could reduce the strain and potential of such things recurring.

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 12 Mar 2017, 14:30
by D.T. Nethery
o0Ampy0o wrote: 12 Mar 2017, 00:00
DanielRenard wrote: 10 Mar 2017, 07:52...go to my recently opened file and pick out my usual work file, click it and wait; being a 1GB file, it would usually take a while to load, so I was used to staring at a blank canvas for a few seconds....
Can you break things up into smaller sections and piece them together later? If your system struggles with the 1GB file size you are going to be vulnerable to hiccups. In theory at least you could reduce the strain and potential of such things recurring.

I would agree with that , even if your project is all one continuous shot (no cuts) , find logical break points to split it into several smaller clips or projects , so every time you're working on it the computer's resources are not straining with a large 1GB file. (and of course enable the Auto-Save and the Multi-Back Up functions in the Prefs ... ) . If the project does have cuts to different scenes , then definitely split it into separate project files instead of having the whole film be contained in a single TVPaint project file.

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 12 Mar 2017, 19:02
by DanielRenard
D.T. Nethery wrote: 12 Mar 2017, 14:30
o0Ampy0o wrote: 12 Mar 2017, 00:00
DanielRenard wrote: 10 Mar 2017, 07:52...go to my recently opened file and pick out my usual work file, click it and wait; being a 1GB file, it would usually take a while to load, so I was used to staring at a blank canvas for a few seconds....
Can you break things up into smaller sections and piece them together later? If your system struggles with the 1GB file size you are going to be vulnerable to hiccups. In theory at least you could reduce the strain and potential of such things recurring.

I would agree with that , even if your project is all one continuous shot (no cuts) , find logical break points to split it into several smaller clips or projects , so every time you're working on it the computer's resources are not straining with a large 1GB file. (and of course enable the Auto-Save and the Multi-Back Up functions in the Prefs ... ) . If the project does have cuts to different scenes , then definitely split it into separate project files instead of having the whole film be contained in a single TVPaint project file.
Aye, I actually do that occasionally, for example, I have a credits sequence for the animation I was making (the one that crashed), it reached a sufficient size and amount of complexity with camera work and effects, that would differ slightly from the rest of the project. When that's the case, I break them off into their own, separate, smaller file, where they will be completed and exported as AVI, the credits sequence was safe in every way, except in the event of a complete destruction of the HDD itself.

It isn't too much strain on my computer with a 1GB file. TVP is one well-programmed software and I'm utterly surprise of how well it performs. I can even violently scrub the Time Line back and forth and it plays the current frame with the designated sound, without lag or any sign of issue.
I've even viewed it in Task Manager as well. With other programs running as well, with my 1GB file and a 600MB+ image file open, as well as a music composing application running, I was at less than 20% of my capacity. TVP is truly remarkable and friendly for the computer, only running the tasks it's being told to. (and I don't say that to suck-up, I really mean that :P )

However, I have indeed changed my workflow after this experience. My current scene I'm doing was broken up into 4 separate files, these filling less than 35MB each (loading and saving takes a quarter of a second now). My settings are now set to make 3 backups and I have an external hard drive coming in with the mail tomorrow, to back-up the most important work and store away finished projects. :)

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 13 Mar 2017, 11:02
by Fabrice
So my thought is, what if the Computer was somewhat responsive to commands during that "1 frame loop" and I actually managed to trigger something like "Shift S" and it initiated the Save, prepping the file to save/rewrite it, but it never got to that part and just wiped everything clean in an instant in an attempt to replace the data on the file?
I don't think anyone can correctly answer this.
But we will try to recover something from your file when we receive it.

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 13 Mar 2017, 11:32
by slowtiger
Usually the Operating System is supposed to first write the new file version to disk, and only after that erase the old version (marking those blocks as free again) and change the pointers to that file's new location. This way there always should be at least one complete file version somewhere. But you're right, any OS can get the hiccups, and when it crashes during saving, files can get damaged or completely lost. Happened to me with a large Photoshop file in 2013, but never with TVP.

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 13 Mar 2017, 15:43
by DanielRenard
slowtiger wrote: 13 Mar 2017, 11:32 Usually the Operating System is supposed to first write the new file version to disk, and only after that erase the old version (marking those blocks as free again) and change the pointers to that file's new location. This way there always should be at least one complete file version somewhere. But you're right, any OS can get the hiccups, and when it crashes during saving, files can get damaged or completely lost. Happened to me with a large Photoshop file in 2013, but never with TVP.
That would make the most sense, indeed and I have been wondering if there's some Temp file sitting somewhere with all the data, ready to be wired to the correct file destination.
Sorry to hear you too have had the unpleasant experience of losing data and hard work. :(

Re: PC Crashed. TVPP file wiped clean?

Posted: 16 Mar 2017, 09:45
by Fabrice
Hi there,

We have checked the file, but the structure itself is damaged (if it was only the datas, we would just have missing frames/layers/clips or corrupted elements like guide or library).
Here there is unfortunately nothing we can recover.

It tends me to think that the problem occured at the beginning of the "save" operation itself, even if the computer has frozen a little bit later ...