Sound shifts along with Mark in

[Henk Beumers]

Hello all.

I work in a project with a soundtrack trom frame 1 to end. When I try to play back a part of the animation by setting the Mark in and -out button, the start of the soundtrack in the master window moves to the Mark in point. The sound in the other windows stays in it's orinal place. So when I play it back I hear the two soundtracks. Of key of cource. I must have doen this before but never I had a shifting soundtrack in the Master window. I tried to find out in the manual but I can't find it there.
Somebody had this problem before? I can work around it but I can't imagine that it's not ajustable.

Henk.

[Mads Juul]

It sound like a bug. I'm not sure I understand
1) you have a sound in the project timeline. starts at frame 1
2) you set mark in in the project timeline to frame 100
3) now the playback of the sound track starts at frame 100 even though it visually starts at frame 1 in the project timeline soundtrack

is this correct?
Do you have the newest version of tvp 10.0.7
I think there was a bug like this at some earlier version.
-Mads

[Henk Beumers]

Hi.

It's as you discribe, only it visualy starts at frame 100 also. In the master window that is. In the window that represents the sound ( windows underneath the master window) it stays in it's place. That's why I hear two soundtracks one starting on frame one, the other (master0 on frame 100.
I read the fixes in .07 but I didn't notice a fix like this but maybe I misunderstood. I'll get .07 and install it. I hope you're right.

Thanks Henk.

[Mads Juul]

sorry I dont understand. we have to kinds of sound
1) project sound with its track in the project tab if you click the timeline view. Do you have any sound here?(No master track here)
2) Each clip has its own sound timeline with a master track, with a wave form illustration of the merged sound. If you have some sound in the project timeline sound. it will also be visible here.

If you move mark in and out in the clip timeline. the visual of the project sound in the clip sound master track vill also move. Bacause the clip mark in and out. also sets the in point and out pint of the clip in the project timeline.
-Mads

[Henk Beumers]

Hi.
Sorry for my late reply but I have to keep working in order to keep my deadline.
In the Layer panel/ in the project tab/ in the timeline view/ there is the soundtrack. No master window. The Project tab is always on Tumbnail view.
If I'm doing an animation I'm in Clip Time Line. Here is the master window for sound. The sound in here shifts to the position of Mark in. If there are more seperate soundtracks they ad up (mix) in the master track. Al the tracks stay in their original position when I use Mark in, but the master track shifts to the Mark in position. So there are two soundtracks playing together but ofsinc so it makes no sence in my opinion. Maybe there is a advantage but I don't see it. Why would you want to shift your sound when playing back only a part of the timeline by using Mark in and mark out. At least that is how I use it. For not have to start all over from the beginning and loose a lot of time.

I didn't update to .07 yet. Busy.Tomorrow is an other day. Henk.

[Mads Juul]

Now I understand you. And an update wont solve your problem. this is the way TVPaint works.

Why would you want to shift your sound when playing back only a part of the timeline by using Mark in and mark out.

Since version 9.5 and the possibility to have multiple clips in tvpaint. The clip mark in and out can be used to set(trim) the inpoint and out point of clips in the project timeline.
This means that if you have your sound in the project timeline you CANNOT use clip in and out anymore to set playback in and out, because the sound will shift. Actually it is not the sound that shift. But it is the clip in and out, so it is actually the clip that shift compared to the project sound.
Before 9.5 I used clip mark in and out to set playback, but this new functionality forced me to change my workflow. so If You want to use Clip mark in and out to control playback, you will have to place the sound in the CLIP timeline(under the master track). else you will have not to use CLIP mark in and out to use for playback. I use Keycommand: Preview : Play from current, or go to the PROJECT timeline and use PREJECT in/out to control playback. please notice PROJECT mark in/out is different from CLIP mark in/out.

I personal think this double functionality is a little problematic, And as I see it there could be a pretty easy solution. We have PROJECT mark in and out.
And if you was able to see the Project mark in and out in the Project timeline and in the clip timeline. Maybe as yellow and blue. clip mark in and out is green and red. and it was possible to set the project mark in and out when you were in the CLIP timeline. and when you are in the clip timeline and one or both PROJECT mark in and out was inside the CLIP mark in and out . the playback would start/end at the PROJECT mark in/out Instead of CLIP in/out then there was a solution to this issue.
-Mads

[Henk Beumers]

Hi.

After reading it several times I see what you mean. I didn't notice this dubble behavour before in the Project and the Clip timeline. I never have long projects and if I do, I find it hard to get used to work with clips and sequences although it's a very logical set up. I'm not used to it that's all. Maybe I never used the Mark in option in those cases but I don't remember.
Still I don't see the advantage. As I understand it, you can load your overall soundtrack in the Project timeline but you can't work (animate) there so you have to go to a clip to animate. In the clip you edit your sound effects and other stuff needed for that clip. So when you use Mark in and Mark out to trim a clip your sound effects are not sinc anymore. This makes no sence in my opinion. I must be missing something if I'm wrong.

So most of the time I'm in a clip and that's it. Like the film I was working on when I noticed this shift of soundtrack.
So the sound is loaded into the clip. There is a Master window and an other under it where you can edit or adjust the sound. So I see two soundtracks but actually it's one track because the master is the mix of all the tracks and that is what you hear when played back. Now in this setup, when I use M in and M out I see the master track shift to the M in position but the track under it stays in it's original position where it belonges. If I play back the clip, it starts at the M in point but the sound is played back twice or dubble whatever you like to call it. The master I hear from the start but the other one starts on frame what ever the M in point is set to. I can't work like that so I keep selecting a part of the layer and play it back like that. Most of the time quite annoying.

Henk.

[Mads Juul]

So most of the time I'm in a clip and that's it. Like the film I was working on when I noticed this shift of soundtrack.
So the sound is loaded into the clip. There is a Master window and an other under it where you can edit or adjust the sound. So I see two soundtracks but actually it's one track because the master is the mix of all the tracks and that is what you hear when played back. Now in this setup, when I use M in and M out I see the master track shift to the M in position but the track under it stays in it's original position where it belonges. If I play back the clip, it starts at the M in point but the sound is played back twice or dubble whatever you like to call it.

This sounds like a bug. If the same sound(the master is not a sound) is playback twice and with different startpoint. it is a bug. one sound should only be playe once. can you post a screen shot of the CLIP soundtrack playback and the PROJECT soundtrack of that project?

[Mads Juul]

Still I don't see the advantage. As I understand it, you can load your overall soundtrack in the Project timeline but you can't work (animate) there so you have to go to a clip to animate. In the clip you edit your sound effects and other stuff needed for that clip. So when you use Mark in and Mark out to trim a clip your sound effects are not sinc anymore. This makes no sence in my opinion. I must be missing something if I'm wrong.

If you use TVPaint to storybooard and as a NLE. You have several sound clips and you trim you clips all the time and want them to shift and the sound to stay. Like you would do in Avid express or in Adobe Premiere. and in this setting it makes sense. ofcause if you are animating to a sound clip that you cannot move, it is not making sense. But tvpaint is both an animation software and a storyboard software.
-Mads

[Henk Beumers]

Hi Mads.

I have 2 sceenprints.
First one is NO Mark in.jpeg. There is no Mark in activated so the sound starts at the first frame. As you can see the soundtrack and the master window are the same. Of course.
The second one is With Mark In.jpeg. As you can see the master representation is different from the actual soundtrack. If I play back I hear two soundtracks the master starts at the beginning of the soundtrack and the second starts at the 10th frame, so the sound is shifted 10 frames. It must be a bug because it makes no sence. If your are editting or storyboarding, you don't want your sound to start at a different position every time you change you edit point.
Tomorrow i'll instal x.07. I hope this will fix the problem. I'll keep you posted.

Henk.

[Fabrice]

this is strange indeed.
If the 10.0.7 didn't fix the problem, I wish you could send us your file so we can test it.

[Henk Beumers]

Hi

I just installed x.07 and there is no change. Weird, I can't remember having this ever before. In fact I'm almost sure having done a project in TVP 10 with many clips and I also made the edit using Mark in and out.
Here's the project.
The project is not done yet so I made another sample file. It's not a one time event. It's easy to reproduce.
I try to upload the tvpp but it's not allowed. What kind of file do you need. I can't do little more than the screendumbs I already made.

Henk.

[Fabrice]

I guess the .tvpp file you uploaded is too big for a forum.

Can you try to use something like WeTransfer ?

[Henk Beumers]

Hello Fabrice.

Oké, I'll use wetransfer. but the file was barely 2 Mb big. It seemed not allowed to send a tvpp.

Henk.

[Elodie]

no, you have to zip it. If it's only 2mb, you can put it on the forum.