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I know this would utilize the Out-Of-Pegs feature but is there a demo or instruction of how one would shift & trace?
I don't think I've fully got the hang of the out of pegs; I've used it to trace-back and check volumes mostly but I'd like to move two onion skinned keys and draw the inbetween between them.

I don't wish to make anyone go into elaborate technical writing but if there is a link much would be appreciated.

Did you find this discussion on the Out of Pegs function (4 pages) ? -

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7271&hilit=shift+trace" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have more to say on this , but right now I've got to run , so will post more later. In the meantime that thread may help .

I think this is one of the functions in TVPaint that needs a thorough video tutorial .

Thanks D.T.,
So...``no`` then.
If they ever get around to a shift & trace function, automatic crosshairs would be helpful. (Traditional animators may draw crosshairs in blue on their drawings for accurate shift & trace). Although, I couldn`t say how much it is done in big feature films as stated in the linked thread; never really worked on a feature; thought it was more like a TV quota aid.

gdesouza wrote: So...``no`` then.

But it is YES (to your original request: "I'd like to move two onion skinned keys and draw the inbetween between them." )

I put together a little tutorial on using Out Of Pegs for my students. Take a look and post back here with any further questions if this doesn't make it clear:

Inbetweening in TVPaint with Out Of Pegs Function

What is still up for improvement is what Don Perro was requesting on that other discussion thread I linked to , namely to be able to "flip" the drawings while they are shifted out of pegs .

However, in the other topic I linked to MJ Out Of Pegs Panel there are other ways of "flipping" suggested (not precisely what Don was requesting, but workable) . Try the custom panel that Mads Juul uploaded in the first post of that topic.

See if you can get together with Don Perro . He can show you a lot about the Out of Pegs (and also to discuss what he has proposed as improvements to the function , which were under discussion in that other thread) .

What is still up for improvement is what Don Perro was requesting on that other discussion thread I linked to , namely to be able to "flip" the drawings while they are shifted out of pegs .

nb : there is a shortcut available for this, but no key assigned by default.
That said, you can not manually flip yet when OOP is activated.

Fabrice wrote:

What is still up for improvement is what Don Perro was requesting on that other discussion thread I linked to , namely to be able to "flip" the drawings while they are shifted out of pegs .

nb : there is a shortcut available for this, but no key assigned by default.
That said, you can not manually flip yet when OOP is activated.

Thanks for reminding me, Fabrice ! In my post above I forgot to mention the shortcut Flip Book + Out Of Pegs . The shortcut was mentioned in the other discussion topic that I referred GDesouza to , but I had intended to mention it here .

GDesouza: From Edit menu > Preferences > Keyboard Shortcuts > Configure search for 'Flip Book Out of Pegs'. You may assign that shortcut to any key that is currently unassigned . Then that keyboard shortcut can be assigned to one of your Wacom tablet buttons or to a USB controller like Griffin Powermate or a game controller which can be used to execute shortcuts without having to go to the keyboard .




Or just use Mads Juul's handy shortcut panel that he posted in the topic I referred you to: MJ Out of Pegs Panel . (go to that link to download it) . When you've installed Mads' custom OOP panel it looks like this:


There is also the Keyboard Shortcut W which is the default key assigned to the regular Flip Book function to rapidly scrub your drawings (to simulate -- sort of -- "flipping/rolling" the drawings ) It's slightly different than the Flip Book + Out of Pegs function. Try them both and you'll see. You can manage how long the "flipping" will continue (for the regular Flip Book function with keyboard shortcut W ) from Windows> Settings> Preview Settings .

Thank you so much for your articulate explicit reply, D.T.
I think I got it now....or better than I have before. Sorry, I do indeed read the links but I tend to drift-off and need to do it practically, as I have done.
P.S.- I have inherited a certain someone's Custom panel with an Inbetween Out Of Pegs, but the flipping is the least of issues for me; I just bookmark the drawings which I am tweening and flip using the keyboard's arrow keys with my left hand.

But this technique is as old as invention of pegs - you do the same, you would do on paper. Basically it helps you see better the more exact placement and shape of elements, that's it. for example - a character jumps while swinging hands. the jump poses are far away from each other, so you don't see where exactly is the inbetween for the hands. so you make the inbetween for the body, and then shift the other two poses out of pegs to match, let's say - the shoulder, so you can ibetween hands easy. it's quite as basic as that...

or for example you have a character moving in perspective (changing size) - so you can shift and resize out-of pegs, to draw more correct inbetweens and compare sizes etc

same if you need to trace an element from another frame

there are lot's of uses , depending on what you need to do. in cleanup and inbetweening process, this function is crucial

I don't want to be too much of a naysayer (again) but could someone explain to me how this makes work easier, faster, and simpler from just animating the entire character in one piece? The advantage of working this way, besides keeping things simple by having the character on a single layer at all times, is that one tends to make the action more dynamic and fluid.

By keeping my character on a single layer, I tend to put better acting into the action, making the overall impression more pleasing because there is more life introduced within the acting. Another advantage is that if something needs to be changed in the action (the director might say that the action should slow down or speed up in the middle of the jump and that the face should show more expressions because it looks so mechanical) then it isn't such a big problem to follow these directions, because everything simply happens on a single layer.

The way you are discussing your workflows here, I get the impression that you will end up having to not just change several layers but will have trouble synchronizing them as you do all of this -- this can turn into a major nightmare!

Paul Fierlinger wrote:I don't want to be too much of a naysayer (again) but could someone explain to me how this makes work easier, faster, and simpler from just animating the entire character in one piece? The advantage of working this way, besides keeping things simple by having the character on a single layer at all times, is that one tends to make the action more dynamic and fluid.

By keeping my character on a single layer, I tend to put better acting into the action, making the overall impression more pleasing because there is more life introduced within the acting. Another advantage is that if something needs to be changed in the action (the director might say that the action should slow down or speed up in the middle of the jump and that the face should show more expressions because it looks so mechanical) then it isn't such a big problem to follow these directions, because everything simply happens on a single layer.

The way you are discussing your workflows here, I get the impression that you will end up having to not just change several layers but will have trouble synchronizing them as you do all of this -- this can turn into a major nightmare!

Paul, sorry, but I have no idea how did you get that kind of impression from this discussion. The out of pegs function has nothing to do with what you are talking about I was talking about moving previous and next drawing on the light table to a more convenient position, so you could trace parts, or make correct inbetweens. Of course animating the character as a whole is usually preferable, although I can point out situations, where separations are necessary, especially for cleanup, inking or compositing purposes.

I guess this got me confused:

position, so you could trace parts,

and on top of that when you talk about separating drawings when out of pegs to make inbetweens added to the confusion... I am still confused, but never mind; I do things differently and use out of pegs in a different way so I won't interfere anymore.

Hmm, no, I wasn't saying about separating drawings - just moving them to place details closer to each other, for easier placing and positioning... I meant you can start with general pose, and then work parts with out of pegs with more precision
I should do a video tutorial once maybe
well, Paul, now you got me curious - so how do you use out-of-pegs function?

I use it primarily to copy inanimate objects that are hard to inbetween without having any small shift in shape sticking out, such as a man's hat. particularly in my semi-realistic style. It's not that I necessarily keep tracing one hat, but use the off peg one to give me a narrow approximation.

Another example would be where a character is wearing an elaborate design on a T-shirt, or carrying a suitcase. Often facial features are especially hard to stick to model when it comes to a likeness of a well known person. That kind of stuff.

In all these cases I revert to off pegging only when the action becomes very slow. With swift motions I don't bother.

Paul Fierlinger wrote:I use it primarily to copy inanimate objects that are hard to inbetween without having any small shift in shape sticking out, such as a man's hat. particularly in my semi-realistic style. It's not that I necessarily keep tracing one hat, but use the off peg one to give me a narrow approximation.

Another example would be where a character is wearing an elaborate design on a T-shirt, or carrying a suitcase. Often facial features are especially hard to stick to model when it comes to a likeness of a well known person. That kind of stuff.

In all these cases I revert to off pegging only when the action becomes very slow. With swift motions I don't bother.

Ok, so it's basically the same I was talkig about. The hands example is just an example, of how to approximate and place them correctly, but it works the same for what you say