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So I was learning about camera moves from the very helpful Don Perro of Capilano U. I wanted to do a zoom in, stop and then at the end of the scene, a quick zoom in to a face. So two moves separated by a hold. Learned how to use the camera, which is a great tool, but it seems that the easiest way to do two moves is to do the first move, duplicate the clip, then do the second move, then join the clips. When I play the two joined clips, it plays back the same clip twice, first with the first camera move and then with the second, but I just want one clip with both moves in it. So I can either output both clips and then edit them, which would work, but seems odd. Or I could enter the timeline of the first and chop it right after the first move, say at frame 30, then chop the first 30 frames from the second clip and then play them joined, in which case they would run as one. This works, but it's a little bit of mucking about to get there. Is that the only way?

If that is the only way, then is there a way to select a point in the timeline and delete everything after that point (or before) on all levels in one move? Otherwise, I have to manually delete from each layer one at a time on both clips, which would be a hassle.

While I am on the subject of timeline maneuvering, I notice that as I zoom out, I lose the handle for dragging a frame, or instance. So if I have an instance I want to extend to the end, I have to do it slowly, while zoomed in. Can I re-time and instance by inputting a frame number to change it from say, 2 frames to 250 frames so that it quickly changes it's time on the timeline? And related to the above, can I multi select layers and drag instances longer on all the layers at once?

To stop your camera, hold in the middle, and finish the move isn't that difficult. First learn to understand the function of the Time Profile.
Click on it to bring it out into a free floating position.
Move it to your layers panel and stretch it to match the length of the entire timeline.
Notice where it says "Position" (on the left) and where it says "Time".
To test the move, keep your graph setting in its default state, which will be "Linear"
Look at the blue. diagonal graph and click somewhere in the middle (closer to the left) and click in the graph to create a key.
Do the same a bit of a distance to the right and drag the graph down so that it will create a perfectly flat area between your two keys. This will be your stop (or hold).
The rising part of the graph's beginning is a zoom (note Position/Time and how it indicates a gradual change in camera position over a span of time).
The same applies to the diagonal portion of the graph at the end.
Thus you have a zoom, hold and zoom.
Play with this and when you feel you understand what's going on, let me know and I can explain how to create a slow in/out etc.

Hi Paul, Thank you for your help with this. I have done as you describe. No problem apart from the fact that I don't want to stop the move and then continue, I want to zoom in, stop, then move to another third position. I can't seem to make it go from A to B and then C, only A to B and then back to A (or towards A). Am I missing something?

Oh, and by the way, if I want to pan some foreground elements out during a move (multiplane effect) do I have to use the Multiplane FX tool (which I have yet to figure out) can a level be panned out in a simpler way? The camera move works on all levels in the scene, so not sure if I can make a different move for an individual level in the same scene. I can't see how.

If you can make one stop, you can make more the same way and there are ways to turn on a sharp dime and scoot your camera into any direction, and for this you use the "smart spline" mode (which I use as my default mode).
To combine two camera actions into one (such as a pan in the background) use "Create a new project from selected clips" (bottom of drop down menu in the project tab) and then you can copy a layer or several layers made with one camera move to layers in the current project by using the Project tab (the one up in the main tabs) and selecting either "Render Camera to a new Project", or "Render Camera to a new merged project".

But you should know something from the background of this camera to understand its functionality better. It used to be that all camera moves were done with the KeyFramer and to this day anything a bit complex is best done there. The developers came up with the camera we all use now as a very basic tool to help create better animatics -- nothing more, and it was called "simple camera" or something like that. They never intended it to become so universally used but we all fell in love with its immediacy (compared to KeyFraming) and encouraged the developers into adding more and more features to it.

So when it comes to panning and and such faux-multiplane FX, I always use the KeyFramer (and BTW, it is not such a monster to use once you try it out.)

David_Fine wrote:So I was learning about camera moves from the very helpful Don Perro of Capilano U. I wanted to do a zoom in, stop and then at the end of the scene, a quick zoom in to a face. So two moves separated by a hold. Learned how to use the camera, which is a great tool, but it seems that the easiest way to do two moves is to do the first move, duplicate the clip, then do the second move, then join the clips. When I play the two joined clips, it plays back the same clip twice, first with the first camera move and then with the second, but I just want one clip with both moves in it. ...

I think you have to set a couple of "Mark In" and "Mark Out" on the timeline to determine the part to play (and so the part to skip), and that on your 2 clips.
btw, in your case, why to "duplicate" the clip, instead of just to "Split" it ?

David_Fine wrote:... I want to zoom in, stop, then move to another third position. I can't seem to make it go from A to B and then C, only A to B and then back to A (or towards A). Am I missing something? ...

you probably have to clic somewhere else to add the third C point of the path, then, on the progress profile, use a flat portion when you want to stop.
but I must admit to mix horizontal straight (flat) and spline (curve to ease-in or out), it's not so easy, I mean it's really trickky ...
so I personnally feel more comfortable by taking the way of splitting the clip in different clips,
one for A to B cam move, a second one for B without move, and a third one for B to C.

David_Fine wrote:... Oh, and by the way, if I want to pan some foreground elements out during a move (multiplane effect) do I have to use the Multiplane FX tool (which I have yet to figure out) can a level be panned out in a simpler way? The camera move works on all levels in the scene, so not sure if I can make a different move for an individual level in the same scene. I can't see how.

you can combine a keyframed background or foreground in an animlayer (source = secondary project, or custombrush), + a Camera moving over the main project,
or use the Multiplane FX, not so easy to master right away, but after some "trial and error" attempts, it could become your best friend .

Paul Fierlinger wrote: use "Create a new project from selected clips" (bottom of drop down menu in the project tab) and then you can copy a layer or several layers made with one camera move to layers in the current project by using the Project tab (the one up in the main tabs) and selecting either "Render Camera to a new Project", or "Render Camera to a new merged project".

Really appreciate the attempt to help, but I feel I am going to need to be shown this. I am not seeing a "create a new project..." drop down menu in the project tab, but I am clearly misunderstanding something.

Paul Fierlinger wrote: But you should know something from the background of this camera to understand its functionality better. It used to be that all camera moves were done with the KeyFramer and to this day anything a bit complex is best done there. The developers came up with the camera we all use now as a very basic tool to help create better animatics -- nothing more, and it was called "simple camera" or something like that. They never intended it to become so universally used but we all fell in love with its immediacy (compared to KeyFraming) and encouraged the developers into adding more and more features to it. So when it comes to panning and and such faux-multiplane FX, I always use the KeyFramer (and BTW, it is not such a monster to use once you try it out.)

That's good to know. Thanks. What I want to do is very simple. Just a zoom in with layers sliding slightly during the move to create more depth.

ZigOtto, thank you, but I just am not getting the hang of that camera window. The camera keeps flying all over the place and not stopping. Anyway, I will get some further instruction, but appreciate the help here. It's me, not you!

That's good to know. Thanks. What I want to do is very simple. Just a zoom in with layers sliding slightly during the move to create more depth.

Well then that's an entirely different issue than I had thought you were asking and for this you would most likely be best off going the route of the multiplane camera. For the type of films I make I have never once had a need for anything like that and never bothered to learn anything about multiplane, sorry.

Just curious, what kind of move were you thinking of which does not use the multiplane? Any place to look for a good tutorial on using the multiplane?

Just the one you described; zoom, stop and after a hold , finish the zoom. Incidentally, I have never used the split clip trick to make it easier to slow in and out on both ends, but will have to try it. I've always just piddled a little with the keys until I made it work and never found it too frustrating as to have to look for a better way. Nevertheless, the split clip way sounds good to me, now that I know about it too.

Multiplane layering turns me off unless it is used in jest and meant to be camp. When layers are treated as sliding backgrounds on a Vaudeville theater stage it only brings more attention to the missing 3rd dimension. Unless it's used as camp in 2D animation, which is great fun to watch but I'm not good at that genre so I leave it to others.

But when it comes to emulating depth I prefer just making the background lighter (never blurred either) and we do that usually with the fader and some pale color background behind. So this is why I have never even opened TVP's multiplane section. I look at a 2D animated film as I would look at any book illustration, except the illustration moves. I just don't feel the need to pretend that I'm working in a 3D space.

Paul Fierlinger wrote:... Nevertheless, the split clip way sounds good to me, now that I know about it too.

indeed, f.i. here's a 3 parts camera move on 60 frames :

1) the first 20 frames : CAM. A to B = left to right pan + small Zoom-in (with ease-in and out),
2) the next 20 frames : CAM B = still camera (no move at all),
3) the last 20 frames : CAM B to C = right to left pan, no Zoom, (with ease-in and out),
by splitting my initial clip in 3 sub-clips, the camera move become very simple to set up,
simple, since we have got the (RMB) commands to copy the Camera point (X, Y, Z) from one clip to the next :

Nice. This brings back memories of the day I was missing in class

Paul Fierlinger wrote:Just the one you described; zoom, stop and after a hold , finish the zoom.

You are absolutely right, Paul. That is the move I indicated at first. I was actually trying to do both things, so got confused. My apologies.

As regards panning layers to replicate depth, I feel that if one zooms in, or pans, not moving the foreground at a different rate just looks odd, but obviously that's entirely subjective and particular to the scene.

particular to the scene and drawing, and painting, and story style, etc., absolutely. I wasn't trying to make a generalization, just a description of my subjective choice.

ZigOtto wrote: 1) the first 20 frames : CAM. A to B = left to right pan + small Zoom-in (with ease-in and out),
2) the next 20 frames : CAM B = still camera (no move at all),
3) the last 20 frames : CAM B to C = right to left pan, no Zoom, (with ease-in and out),
by splitting my initial clip in 3 sub-clips, the camera move become very simple to set up,

So this is clear, thank you. My only question is that here we really have one single 60 frame scene, split into three x 20 frames in order to do the moves. So how do you change each scene to be those split parts? That is, lets say you have about 8 levels. Do you manually trim each level down to the 20 frames needed for the part 1, 2 and 3? That is, for part 2, you have to trim 8 levels on the left and the right. Or is there some simple way to select a section of all layers, hit delete and they are all deleted? It just seems like a lot of adjusting that could result in errors, but maybe I am missing something. Certainly in an app like Pro Tools, with multiple audio tracks, it's easy to trim a bunch of tracks in one quick move. Does TVPaint do this?